defender300td1 said:

Saint what is the part about power down routine , that records the temp,Failure
Of this relay will mean ecu will not power up there for car will not start ??

Click to expand...

The Main Engine Control Relay is what supplies power to the Engine ECU....

During Shutdown the ECU hold this relay in while it logs the engine temperature and sets the Idle Control Valve to the correct position to permit starting (like using a choke on a carb essentially).

Once it has set all the required settings it then powers down...

If this relay was faulty - Doug and his gear wouldn't be able to talk to the ECU as it wouldn't have power (AFAIK)....but it would be another relay to check for operation with the screwdriver test!

Saint.V8 said:

The Main Engine Control Relay is what supplies power to the Engine ECU....

During Shutdown the ECU hold this relay in while it logs the engine temperature and sets the Idle Control Valve to the correct position to permit starting (like using a choke on a carb essentially).

Once it has set all the required settings it then powers down...

If this relay was faulty - Doug and his gear wouldn't be able to talk to the ECU as it wouldn't have power (AFAIK)....but it would be another relay to check for operation with the screwdriver test!

Click to expand...

I don't know about you but most of that page relates to ecm no spark no pump all controlled by this unit odds are on that .

defender300td1 said:

I don't know about you but most of that page relates to ecm no spark no pump all controlled by this unit odds are on that .

Click to expand...

When you say 'this unit' are you taking about the ECM?? as Rob has already changed that with a known good one ....

Don't forget the ECM (Engine Control Module) is the same thing as the Engine ECU (Electronic Control Unit).

Saint.V8 said:

When you say 'this unit' are you taking about the ECM?? as Rob has already changed that with a known good one ....

Don't forget the ECM (Engine Control Module) is the same thing as the Engine ECU (Electronic Control Unit).

Click to expand...

Yea ECM scope on eBay it's all feeds then but I don't know how good they are .made by sealy

Sorry Saint, I've been a bit busy lately & to knackered to peruse through.

I've read some of the postings, but got lost halfway through.

I want someone to give me a direct history from beginning, who's been at it, what's been done etc, & i'll try & pin point it.

Rick-the-Pick said:

Sorry Saint, I've been a bit busy lately & to knackered to peruse through.

I've read some of the postings, but got lost halfway through.

I want someone to give me a direct history from beginning, who's been at it, what's been done etc, & i'll try & pin point it.

Click to expand...

Basically it was working until he flashed a wire over on the fusebox. BECM has been replaced and coded to the car, re-synced etc. Good engine ECU tried, no effect. Somat has blown, the problem is tracing it when the car is not in front of you.

Datatek said:

Basically it was working until he flashed a wire over on the fusebox. BECM has been replaced and coded to the car, re-synced etc. Good engine ECU tried, no effect. Somat has blown, the problem is tracing it when the car is not in front of you.

Click to expand...

Good fusebox (inc fuses and relays) swapped in too, no joy.

Marc, You're my neighbour. What part of Brighton?

Saint been doing some tests for you here is my results

When I turn the ignition on to lights on dash the relays I can here coming in are
RL15
RL 2
RL 19

They are definitely clicking inside as the ignition comes on


Test 2

I have battery voltage tested as you said at both coil packs on the white wire ie the middle of the three in both three pin connectors

Test 3

Relay RL 2 has 12v battery power at terminal 30 constant even with keys out

Relay RL 15 only has I'm not sure if its 0.8v or 8v these meters are **** lol

I've a picture I will upload soon to show meter reading saint

Crank sensor and coil packs arrived but not fitted as yet

neo2 said:

Saint been doing some tests for you here is my results

When I turn the ignition on to lights on dash the relays I can here coming in are
RL15
RL 2
RL 19

They are definitely clicking inside as the ignition comes on


Test 2

I have battery voltage tested as you said at both coil packs on the white wire ie the middle of the three in both three pin connectors

Test 3

Relay RL 2 has 12v battery power at terminal 30 constant even with keys out

Relay RL 15 only has I'm not sure if its 0.8v or 8v these meters are **** lol

I've a picture I will upload soon to show meter reading saint

Crank sensor and coil packs arrived but not fitted as yet

Click to expand...

Get the waterproofs on then and a torch in your mouth and get out there.


When i was a lad............................:behindsofa:

Rodntod ha ha its in the garage now mate ive pushed it inside so when im sick of the bastard i can just shut the door and walk away lol

Saint here are my pictures ref the volts on RL15 at terminal 30 on the relay, its the .875 the 11.94 is direct from battery but there are ABS pumps and all sorts running while i did that...

Hi guys just a quick re run of what has happened from the start ….

Bought the car drove home 200 miles no issues at all no error on dash nothing, then spent 4 days doing bits and bobs no faults still no issues..
I drove 10 miles to my mates and on the way I touched nothing then the horns starting blasting ie the car horns not alarm and headlights went to high beam and hazard warning lights started flashing, I quickly pulled over and knocked the ignition off all was ok,, I turned ignition back on all horns lights the lot again, I took the indicator bulbs out and disconnected the horns and drove home, rangie drove fine at this point…

I posted on here my problem and awaited for advice….
ADVICE 1,,, check fuse box for corrosion so I disconnected the battery took it off and opened it up, looked like new so I put it together refitted it and reconnected the battery, turned ignition on and same problem lights, horns the lot blasting away tried to start it and it started fine, so fuse box had no problem there….
ADVICE 2,,,, check alarm siren unplug it might be that so I stuck me hand in and unlugged it turned ignition on and same fault light,horns and hazards tried starting it and again fired up no problem whoo hoo so far so good or not lol….
CRITICAL INFORMATION FOLLOWS
When I tried to reconnect the alarm siren I couldn’t get my hand in so I un did the three 10mm bolts to move the fuse box half an inch to get access as I stuck my hand in and plugged alarm siren in I got a blast of sparks from under the fuse box “ what the ****” **** my pants etc, and realised I had left the battery on, so I undid the lead and investigated what I had done..
On the the underside of the fuse box there was three x 10mm nuts with large guage cable the brown and green wire stud had touched the fusebox mounting bracket and shorted to earth I could see the burn mark on the stud, this wire goes to the EBCM as do the other two straight to the side of it I think…
Ok so I resecured the fusebox I could not see any melted wires or smell any burning etc, I also checked the fuses and found I had blown the MAXI FUSE 2 50a one,
I replaced that and checked the rest all ok,, reconnected battery and then went into car to check all was ok now here things had changed….

All the same faults were evident ie the lights/hazards and horns but the display had gone off on dash too since I shorted the wire out, the LCD display I mean, so I went to try and start it, engine cranked over but no firing up now between it running before the alarm siren episode and not running is only 5 to 10 minuites maximum so I know the shorting of the wire or stud has killed the engine from running…

Ok so next in comes the great man Doug comes up and investigates takes my EBCM away and finds out its totally goosed gets me a second hand one and tests it before he returns to fit it so he knows it’s a good one, he fits it and syncs it in etc along with a new £144 key I had bought and expected it to start as I did,,,

Now the EBCM has fixed the lights,hazards, and horns and the dash LCD display also has returned so the original fault has now been fixed ALL ELECTRICS ARE WORKING AS THE SHOULD NOW…..

But it still wont fire up but cranks over…Doug advised I might of blown a circuit inside the fusebox with the short as the three large wires have a good power and continuity from the fuse box to the EBCM he also says all seems to be fine with the EBCM and its data…

So after an updated post a great member SASASNAK sends me his full fusebox inc all fuses and relays from his working car to test before I buy one, I fit it and reconnect battery and all is still the same. ELECTRICS ALL OK but still cranking over but no firing up…..so I refit my old fuse box and send his back, sasasnak confirms he has refitted his fusebox he lent me and his fired straight up no issues…

Doug then advises it might be the Engine ECU been spiked etc, I then ordered a good used part from North west range rover spares for £150 and Doug returns to code and sync it with the EBCM which he does…He trys to start the rangie and again all is fine, cranks over but no fire….

We tested for a spark the old plug lead in a lead and earthed to engine trick and nothing no spark at all…

AS IT STANDS NOW….
When cranking over there is no spark at all…
Sunroof saying not closed when it is ??
Windows not set errors x 4
Gearbox Fault ?? wasn’t there when it was running don’t know why its come up now ethier….

Ive bought 2 x new coil packs today to try and also a new crankshaft position sensor again brand new but im not convinced its ether of them to be fair….
Ive done the tests SAINTV8 asked but it don’t mean a lot to me as im just doing as he asks don’t understand what it means to be fair…

And I think that’s about it. I can get the fuel pump to run by bridging terminal 30 with 87 in the fuse box with relay out and but it runs constent, but even if its bridged it wont fire when cranked….

Im in **** street now to be fair I need help and want it fixed

Tonights tests...
When I turn the ignition on to lights on dash the relays I can here coming in are
RL15
RL 2
RL 19

They are definitely clicking inside as the ignition comes on


Test 2

I have battery voltage tested as you said at both coil packs on the white wire ie the middle of the three in both three pin connectors

Test 3

Relay RL 2 has 12v battery power at terminal 30 constant even with keys out

Relay RL 15 only has I'm not sure if its 0.8v or 8v these meters are **** lol

I've a picture I will upload soon to show meter reading saint

Crank sensor and coil packs arrived but not fitted as yet

other tests or information that might help....

FUEL PUMP RELAY.....

Term 30 on fusebox side has 12v perm live feed
Term 86 has 12v live at ignition on point
Bridging term 30 to 87 kicks the fuel pump in constent but when cranked with pump running it still dont fire up...


Thanks very much for even reading this it means a lot to you all….Rob

Neo I can feel your desperation, I suspect the problem is a small one just hang on in there. I'm afraid I have little else to offer as I know very little about P38's but I know how you feel - it took me 12 months to get my RRC to run properly.

Don't quit!

Yeah Kev its proper ****ing me off and i will scrap it if it comes to it as well no matter how good or low miles it is im lost with it now to be fair...

It might sound stupid but what triggers the coil packs? Is there a link between ignition and the injection (apart from the ECU itself).

Does the ECU rely solely on the cam or crank sensor to trigger ignition and fuel injection?

i dont know Kev i think its time to hand it over to someone who is willing to come and fix it to be honest test it all and i would guess be an auto electrician as well etc...

So
Main ECU Relay (19) is cutting in
In turn the BeCM is happy with the key and the Immobiliser has given the OK for the BeCM to pull in the Ignition relay (15)
The ABS Relay (2) is cutting in to prime the Hydraulic System

I am surprised that the fuel pump relay hasn't clicked over(12) - this is switched on when the Engine ECU senses the Ignition Coils are switched on (which they are by proving battery voltage at the WHITE wire.)

I am hoping your reading at Pin 30 of Relay 15 (Ignition) is 8.whatever - as you say you have battery volts on the WHITE wire on the coil plug so you should have same at Pin30 (as this is what feeds that WHITE wire!!).

The Fuel Pump relay should come on until the Fuel pressure sensor reads around 2.5bar pressure - so if your bridging has caused the fuel pressure to be at 2.5bar, the fuel pump relay might not cut in.

So to recap....

You have power from the Ignition relay to the WHITE wire of Batter yVolts - so there is power to the coils
The Engine ECU Relay is pulling in powering the ECU.
The Fuel pump will run when bridged, but it could be up to pressure already which is why it won't run with ignition on.

It can only be the Coil Packs not firing due to duff packs - or the ECU doesn't know the engine is turning over due to duff Crank Sensor.....

Gonna read some more on the Fuel Pump and Crank Sensor...

classic kev said:

It might sound stupid but what triggers the coil packs? Is there a link between ignition and the injection (apart from the ECU itself).

Does the ECU rely solely on the cam or crank sensor to trigger ignition and fuel injection?

Click to expand...

ECU fires the coil packs

Yes the ECU needs a Crank signal to time the ignitionand injection and the cam signal to time the Injections to the knock sensors

Rob - Ignore the Sunroof and windows not set warnings - minor thing until you fully open then fully close the windows one by one....

Ive got two new intermotor coil packs delivered today ive loosend the bracket but they are so tight i cant seem to get them out anyway so left them for tonight and the crank sensor is a new genuine one and ive not tried that ethier as yet as i only got it today but im working 8am to 8pm tomorrow as well...

Whats your thoughts on the gearbox error im worried about that as well...

Rick-the-Pick said:

Marc, You're my neighbour. What part of Brighton?

Click to expand...

Hiya,

Hangleton - you?

I'm hoping I never have to take you up on your 20min claim - but good to know you're local