marjon said:
Totally see you frustration, which was why I suggested you were there with the next assessor.
As you say the definition of a "B" i also feel should not really be applied to a car as a Land rover of this flavor. But its the aftermath of trying to get it insurance again that would be a worry.

Were you on an agreed value?
Did they actually give/calculate a rebuild cost? or just say "B" forget it?

J
Click to expand...
I was there with this assessor, but he didn't listen to me and he was the one who told me that i would be able to withdraw the claim if I was not happy with the outcome which as it turns out is not the case. Once the engineer repeort has been submitted I cannot withdraw the claim!

No they did not calculate a rebuild cost it was fire damage is automatically "beyond economic repair" and the assessor that came out had the view that fire damage is automatically Cat B. At no point has any consideration been made for the type of vehicle.
I did not have it on agreed value had it insured for 12k but i know without agreed value that is not worth much, but I did have all of the modification declared so that may count for something.
 
Sorry I know AF are on here but didnt rate them and never went with them in the end. they knew nothing about our P38.
I wouldnt personally recommend them:(.

J
 
dag019 said:
I was there with this assessor, but he didn't listen to me and he was the one who told me that i would be able to withdraw the claim if I was not happy with the outcome which as it turns out is not the case. Once the engineer repeort has been submitted I cannot withdraw the claim!

No they did not calculate a rebuild cost it was fire damage is automatically "beyond economic repair" and the assessor that came out had the view that fire damage is automatically Cat B. At no point has any consideration been made for the type of vehicle.
I did not have it on agreed value had it insured for 12k but i know without agreed value that is not worth much, but I did have all of the modification declared so that may count for something.
Click to expand...

Specialists Indy report sounds the way to go then.
Then the arguing starts:mad:.

But at least you got a nice little 90 to tide you over:D.

J
 
My Old Landy said:
If you decide to dismantle the vehicle yourself, selling the parts you don't require is no longer possible on eBay. Apparently you require a licence!
https://environmentagency.blog.gov.uk/2021/07/02/taking-decisive-action-on-illegal-vehicle-breakers/
Whilst you are not going to be doing it for profit per se, just letting you know there can be implications on the parts etc.
I wish you luck in the project and hope you can retain the vehicle as it means so much to you (I would too!).
Click to expand...

I have been doing some research into that and what is required for a certificate of destruction (COD) if it does end up being a Cat B.

https://www.gov.uk/scrapped-and-written-off-vehicles

this has some useful information that it looks like I can keep the reg (in the progress of applying for) take off all the parts I need, and then take it to a scrap yard to get the COD. I am assuming all they need to actually give you a COD is the chassis, vin plate, and V5, but I will need to do some more digging.
 
lightning said:
Have the insurance made an offer for the vehicle yet.
As in, how much they want to pay you for the "total loss" ?
Click to expand...
Not yet, but I think that is because they did not get that far as i challenged the engineers report. I got a text to arrange vehicle collection, contacted the insurance company who told me it the engineers report said a Cat B and I then immediately challenged the report so it is now going through that process rather than the payout process.
 
Would this be an option?
Remove damaged body work or bulkhead/bonnet
Get you COD

Re use chassis & fit new bulkhead bonnet etc & apply for new registration? Yes it may need an inspection but as long as you have receipts for the parts used all should be fine.
 
dag019 said:
I spoke to the assessor about this when he was looking at it as I said the same thing basted on the new categories it should be a cat N as there is no structural damage (chassis) the fire was above it and there is no fire evidence on the chassis. Apparently They count the bulkhead as part of the structure and that is fire damaged, the fact that I have a new galv one in the garage ready to fit and it is a swappable part apparently is not relevant


That is only half the problem though, apparently now they have had a report claiming it should be Cat B they have to report it as such and record it against the vehicle weather they pay out or not. if they do not pay me they do not own the vehicle and I get to keep it but it still has a Cat B record against it cannot go back on the road.


Not got that far yet, because I have disputed the finding of the report I have not even got to the point of being offered a settlement. so don't even know what value they are considering.



That is what i am going to talk to the "team leader" about when they call back. I want an independent land rover specialist to assess the vehicle and give their professional opinion on if it can safely be returned to the road.



Despite claiming to be land rover specialist (adrian flux) the underwriters (not adrian flux) are clearly not used to dealing with these vehicle or the sorts of people who own them. Both times now the first contact I have had has been a third party company wanting to arrange a time to take the vehicle away. They are not used to people want to keep the vehicle or having the means and willing to store a broken vehicle.
Click to expand...
Do get all these points and am seriously feeling your pain.
As for rescinding a Cat B, I think you need to find out how far down the line of reporting this to the DVLA they have gone.
If it hasn't got as far as them then it is just paper pushing and house-keeping. If they have had a flawed report, they do not have to act on it. And indeed would be failing in their duty if they do so.
It must surely be possible to have another assessor look at it and a decision reached that the first assessment was a mistake. If a bulkhead can be replaced safely and with no danger to the structure of the vehicle, as we all know they can, then his assessment was flawed and the DVLA ought to accept that after, as you say, a proper LR aware assessor looks at it.

I was once insured with AF. As are many in the kit car world, and I found them to be sh!t as well. They talk the talk but they don't walk the walk.
So sorry for all your troubles, mate.:(:(:(:(:(
 
Zed. said:
theres a common theme with af & people saying they wouldnt give them the steam from their piss;)

they (af) definately talk the talk & unfortunately talk is cheap....

Rich.
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There is a lot of "they got into the kit car insurance market first so they are the best" sh!t talked, mostly by themseleves.
But they aren't, I've been insured by quite a few others and so far they have been both competitive and fair.
But then I don't tend to go crashing my kit car's much, although one did burn, actually it was Wifey's but i was driving.
 
The problem is, as far as l know AF are the only company who will do Agreed Value on newer Defenders.

With the value of Defenders bearing no resemblance to the "book price" and even the price guides in Land Rover magazines which say my pristine TD5 CSW is worth £12,000 (l've had a local dealer offer £17,000 as a cash buy in, not even as a part exchange)
l think it's essential to get Agreed Value.

NFU were very good, although they wouldn't "agree" the value they seemed to pay out the actual value in cases of total loss.
But they doubled our premium out of the blue a few years ago, to over £800.

I've tried them since and they are still twice the price of AF.
 
lightning said:
as far as l know AF are the only company who will do Agreed Value on newer Defenders.
Click to expand...

really?

I use Brentacre as brokers and evrything I insure (3 vehicles currently) have agreed value:cool:

lightning said:
I've tried them since and they are still twice the price of AF.
Click to expand...

you get what you pay for?

good luck with af, hope you don't need to claim (OR they don't decide to cancell your cover without informing you:mad:)

Rich.
 
lightning said:
The problem is, as far as l know AF are the only company who will do Agreed Value on newer Defenders.

With the value of Defenders bearing no resemblance to the "book price" and even the price guides in Land Rover magazines which say my pristine TD5 CSW is worth £12,000 (l've had a local dealer offer £17,000 as a cash buy in, not even as a part exchange)
l think it's essential to get Agreed Value.

NFU were very good, although they wouldn't "agree" the value they seemed to pay out the actual value in cases of total loss.
But they doubled our premium out of the blue a few years ago, to over £800.

I've tried them since and they are still twice the price of AF.
Click to expand...
Yep, we were with NFU until they started playing silly beggars, about our trailer.
Agreed value is a contentious issue. in the Kit Car world a lot of people have it if they can and Wifey has it on her Porsche Speedster replica. She is with "Heritage".
But insurance companies are all rogues.
They basically lend you an umbrella when it isn't raining and take it away again when it rains on you!
There is some argument for getting the absolute cheapest TPF & T insurance and having a pot of money to spend, if you have to, on mending it if the accident is your fault.
 
l thought that if you have "Agreed Value" there's no arguments, if it's a total loss you get the Agreed Value amount?

l would much rather go with NFU but l'm not paying nearly £900.

I've used Brentacre, they were really good with my modified Clio 182 but they wouldn't cover my 2005 Defender, they just didn't want to know.
 
Last edited:
I have some good news the 90 is now back on the road having past its MOT so I have a vehicle again.

I think I am going to get the independent report anyway and will then submit it to the insurance company so they have a copy and then the arguing can really begin.

I spoke to the DVLA about retaining my number plate, I have submitted the paperwork for that, but that means the insurance company cannot record the cat B until the new logbook has come through otherwise it messes up the DVLA system so I have that conversation to have with them today. I am hoping it should not be an issue to hold off submitting the write off category for a few weeks as I am arguing the write off category anyway.
 
dag019 said:
I have some good news the 90 is now back on the road having past its MOT so I have a vehicle again.

I think I am going to get the independent report anyway and will then submit it to the insurance company so they have a copy and then the arguing can really begin.

I spoke to the DVLA about retaining my number plate, I have submitted the paperwork for that, but that means the insurance company cannot record the cat B until the new logbook has come through otherwise it messes up the DVLA system so I have that conversation to have with them today. I am hoping it should not be an issue to hold off submitting the write off category for a few weeks as I am arguing the write off category anyway.
Click to expand...
Good for you.
We in the past have had an independent assessor totally refute the report of another. So it can't be that rare.
Crossed fingers for you.
Best of luck
:):):)
 
Stanleysteamer said:
Good for you.
We in the past have had an independent assessor totally refute the report of another. So it can't be that rare.
Crossed fingers for you.
Best of luck
:):):)
Click to expand...
That is very good to hear thank you! I was fairly certain it must be a common issue in the specialist vehicle world, but unsurprisingly the insurance company were not keen on the idea and I had not come across any other stories on my, all be it limited, searching on the subject.

I have just had what has to have been the nicest, most helpful, and most competent call with the insurance company, unfortunately I did not get her name but head and shoulders above everyone else I have spoken to so far! They have agreed to hold off reporting the category to the dvla until I have retained the reg and have the new V5 which on current DVLA timeline is 4-6 weeks, they were quite happy about the time because "it is the DVLA". At least even if it stays cat B I will get to keep my reg, which although nothing special and not personalized is part of what makes it my one if I do need to start again and rebuild. Also although I have not yet heard from a "Team leader" the complaint challenge is logged in the system and being processes all be it slowly (a benefit atm) and if I get the independent report and submit that it would aid my challenge.
 
dag019 said:
That is very good to hear thank you! I was fairly certain it must be a common issue in the specialist vehicle world, but unsurprisingly the insurance company were not keen on the idea and I had not come across any other stories on my, all be it limited, searching on the subject.

I have just had what has to have been the nicest, most helpful, and most competent call with the insurance company, unfortunately I did not get her name but head and shoulders above everyone else I have spoken to so far! They have agreed to hold off reporting the category to the dvla until I have retained the reg and have the new V5 which on current DVLA timeline is 4-6 weeks, they were quite happy about the time because "it is the DVLA". At least even if it stays cat B I will get to keep my reg, which although nothing special and not personalized is part of what makes it my one if I do need to start again and rebuild. Also although I have not yet heard from a "Team leader" the complaint challenge is logged in the system and being processes all be it slowly (a benefit atm) and if I get the independent report and submit that it would aid my challenge.
Click to expand...
Does sound a bit more hopeful.
Our assessor, who had to be shown where the accident damage was, cos it was so slight, simply wrote on the form.
"The slight damage I saw could not have happened if the accident had happened the way the third party insists. It would in fact have been far more extensive."
After a few years of the insurance company batting it back, the third party paid for his own barrister to take it to court. The judge, the court offices and our barrister fecked it up like you couldn't believe. This piece of paper went missing and the judge awarded against us. But our insurance company knew the accident was not Wifey's fault. Paid up cos they had to, but didn't put Wifey's premium up nor did they remove any of her NCD.
I contacted the judge and the court after it and they admitted that the paper was in the judge's bundle all along.
So the thick fecker knew he'd made a mistake.
Nothing like your case at all.
But if you'd seen the damages the third party was claiming for, you wouldn't have believed it. So yes, your own assessment should help loads.
And I sincerely wish you all the best with it.
Having been there, in both the question of a vehicle fire and a lousy assessor, I really do feel for you.
 
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