wont start

sierrafery · Aug 23, 2012

so, if yours is a Td5 it doesnt have 10AS security(the 10AS is on Disco 1), the security of D2 is within the BCU circuit board(body control unit) which has several other functions too beside the alarm and it's not a simple swap, it needs complex programmings to work.

the original fob comunicates with the passive remobilisation exciter coil not with the barrel ... so that guy served you pretty much bollox imo.

Andy Land · Aug 23, 2012

I fail to see what the OP's Disklok has got to do with his Landy not starting!

sparg · Aug 23, 2012

sierrafery said:
so, if yours is a Td5 it doesnt have 10AS security(the 10AS is on Disco 1), the security of D2 is within the BCU circuit board(body control unit) which has several other functions too beside the alarm and it's not a simple swap, it needs complex programmings to work.

the original fob comunicates with the passive remobilisation exciter coil not with the barrel ... so that guy served you pretty much bollox imo.

Ah
This was a defender, 2001. would that have ben same as D1 or D2?
I thought it was the barrel since some vehicles do this - but yes, it's still part of the passive immobiliser system. I did find that if I started it with the old key fob present, then removed that fob, it would run fine - but wouldn't start (though didn't set the alarm off) unless I brought the old keyfob into the cab, near the wheel

Bromsgrove Defender · Oct 2, 2012

Feck me I think I found the problem.

So simple in the end I coulda kicked the blessed thing..........

After clearing out all the oil in the loom sealing the engine loom plug it still cut out and with a completely dry red plug told me absolutely for certain the fault weren't related to oil in the loom.

So I started thinking short circuit maybe, chaffed wires. Checked, nothing zip, nada.

Ok start her up and see if I can force a fault waggled wires, waggled fuses, waggled relays again nothin.
Thought lets turn him off remove a relay restart and see what happens........ nothing outta the ordinary. That is till I removed the starter motor relay. Or more to the point till I put it back in....................... just went click

BINGO! I thought. I know what causes that. Sure enough main power lead nut was slightly loose

Shifty1962 · Oct 2, 2012

So the moral of the story is ..........

Always check the simple easy basic things first before assuming its something complicated and expensive. Glad you found it.

Andy Land · Oct 2, 2012

Bromsgrove Defender said:
Feck me I think I found the problem.

So simple in the end I coulda kicked the blessed thing..........

After clearing out all the oil in the loom sealing the engine loom plug it still cut out and with a completely dry red plug told me absolutely for certain the fault weren't related to oil in the loom.

So I started thinking short circuit maybe, chaffed wires. Checked, nothing zip, nada.

Ok start her up and see if I can force a fault waggled wires, waggled fuses, waggled relays again nothin.
Thought lets turn him off remove a relay restart and see what happens........ nothing outta the ordinary. That is till I removed the starter motor relay. Or more to the point till I put it back in....................... just went click

BINGO! I thought. I know what causes that. Sure enough main power lead nut was slightly loose

Told ya

Bromsgrove Defender · Oct 3, 2012

Andy Land said:
Told ya

:hysterically_laughi

Bromsgrove Defender · Dec 11, 2012

Sort of a Oh crap ..................... Yaaay! day yesterday.

Thought I'd sorted this only to have it die on me last night ...... again.

Fortunately still had multimeter and electrical manual with me ...... and a torch lol

Turns out its the power feed to the ECM that is shorting out, it's obviously chaffed through somewhere so that's todays little job. I digress.

There was power at the fuse but not at the BLACK PLUG (highlighted for the benefit of all those who say this fault is oil in the loom at the Red Plug ) as an aside oil in the loom may or may not be the cause of miss firing..... juries still out on that one. But suffice to say I have oil in the loom but no missfiring issues...... "Yet !" I hear Ratty adding.......

Anyway put in a bypass wire direct from fuse 8 to Black Plug Pin 33. Actually any ignition switched live would have done but I decided to use the proper one.

Lo and behold fired and run sweet as a nut just to be certain I took the wire back out. Hey presto! No Go! put it back and was able to finish my journey......

At last a result. Thanks to all those who conributed. I certainly learnt a valuable lesson in the process and hope those reading this will too.

Andy Land · Dec 12, 2012

Once again ... told ya! :bounce:

Bromsgrove Defender · Dec 13, 2012

Andy Land said:
Once again ... told ya! :bounce:

Cough sickly!

Bromsgrove Defender · Dec 18, 2012

FFS back to the drawing board.

Yup me bodge worked ok getting power to the ECU

BUT

Speedo now not working and it still keeps tryiing to stop. Engine light flashes revs die then it picks up and runs for a few more minutes.

If it were just the revs dieing then picking up I think I'd suspect the Crank position sensor or at least the wiring to/from it. But the speedo not working..... surley that not working wouldn't have caused the engine to die? Would it?

Shifty1962 · Dec 18, 2012

Defo points to an electrical problem.

Maybe a dry joint on the ECU circuit board ???

Apparently the speedo dont work via the ECU so maybe its still a power problem on the supply to dash and ECU ?

Bromsgrove Defender · Dec 19, 2012

Shifty1962 said:
Defo points to an electrical problem.

Maybe a dry joint on the ECU circuit board ???

Apparently the speedo dont work via the ECU so maybe its still a power problem on the supply to dash and ECU ?

Just put it all back together as I'd stripped it back a bit too far..... got a bit carried away

I'll post piccies later

Just going to check voltages at ecu, speed transducer and speedo ..... Knowing my luck it'll be fine for days again

Wish it would just, not work!

Andy Land · Dec 19, 2012

Summat probably needs welderising

johnlad · Dec 19, 2012

Shifty1962 said:
Defo points to an electrical problem.

Maybe a dry joint on the ECU circuit board ???

Apparently the speedo dont work via the ECU so maybe its still a power problem on the supply to dash and ECU ?

speedo is fused, but can't remember which one

sierrafery · Dec 19, 2012

make sure that Fuse 15 in tfhe interior fusebox makes good contact...and the speedo is linked to ECU ....see diagram 47 http://www.idc-online.com/technical...l_engineering/Electrical_Circuit_Diagrams.pdf

Shifty1962 · Dec 20, 2012

sierrafery said:
make sure that Fuse 15 in tfhe interior fusebox makes good contact...and the speedo is linked to ECU ....see diagram 47 http://www.idc-online.com/technical...l_engineering/Electrical_Circuit_Diagrams.pdf

Thats what I thought but from this thread.....
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/td5-speedo-onto-old-v8-90-a-208550.html

Retroanaconda said:
..... the speedo gets its signal straight from the transducer on the transfer box, the ECU isn't involved at all.

In terms of what bits you'd need:

Td5 Speedo Head

Td5 instrument loom

Speed Transducer

Some wiring etc.

The transducer goes into the transfer box in place of the current speedo cable. Speedo goes in dash, you'll need to chop about the Td5 instrument loom to remove all the stuff for the other gauges. Then a bit of wiring and you're up and running! .......

Bromsgrove Defender · Dec 20, 2012

sierrafery said:
make sure that Fuse 15 in tfhe interior fusebox makes good contact...and the speedo is linked to ECU ....see diagram 47 http://www.idc-online.com/technical...l_engineering/Electrical_Circuit_Diagrams.pdf

Shifty1962 said:
Thats what I thought but from this thread.....
http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f7/td5-speedo-onto-old-v8-90-a-208550.html

Yup speedo is linked to the ecu but the ecu gets power from the immobiliser.............. or not in my case.

That was why I had no voltage at the ecu p33 on black plug. Summat seems to be adrift inside the mobiliser maybe. Deffo power to the immobiliser just not from it.
Looks like Mr Land is correct in that a dry joint maybe inside the immobiliser

That'll be fun getting into.............T'is a sealed unit.

At the moment :5breddevil:

I's about to roll up me sleeves n let battle commence

Bromsgrove Defender · Dec 20, 2012

sierrafery said:
make sure that Fuse 15 in tfhe interior fusebox makes good contact...and the speedo is linked to ECU ....see diagram 47 http://www.idc-online.com/technical...l_engineering/Electrical_Circuit_Diagrams.pdf

Retroanaconda said:
Shifty1962 said:

All of them! Its not as strarght forward as you'd think.
The speedo gets its signal from the ECU which in turn gets its signal from the speed sender fitted to the transfer box.

Click to expand...

Actually the speedo gets its signal straight from the transducer on the transfer box, the ECU isn't involved at all.

Hate to say it but I fink yer wrong

The fuse number is dependant on vehicle age my wiring seems to be a mixure of 300TDI and 2002 onwards TD5 and I'm beging to suspect that my immobiliser is not a factory fitted one either

The speed transducer recieves it's power via the immobiliser White n Green wire which is also the power feed for the ECU pin 33.
The Black wire is the earth and the Black and Red is the feed to the speedo

So without further delay the fault is either in the immobiliser or where the W/G wires meet up or Connector P0448 which would have been favourite but seems to be ok.

Still not found the join.............................

Shifty1962 · Dec 20, 2012

Good luck mate.

wont start

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