what engine should i go for (p38)

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J

JPM646

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i dunno what engine to go for in the p38 was lookin at the bmw 2.5 td but have thourght about the 4.6 vouge? as the differance in price of fule and mpg not a grate differance. whats the history of the 4.6 petrol? wheres it from and how many miles should it be good for? oh and any faults to watch out for? thanks JP
 
I purchased a 2002 vogue SE 4.6 LPG i absolutely love my p38 although there have been problems which i will come to. Now this is all personal opinion. I test drove a standard diesel and to be honest i found it painfully under powered for such a big car (don't pull out of a junction unless there are no cars in sight!!) i did not think the engine was suitable with an auto box for a range rover and the guy said he was lucky if he got 24 mpg. So my next stop was to drive a V8 i chose the 4.6 as both the 4.0 and 4.6 are awful on fuel i get about 15 mpg but that's on LPG so if you double that I'm averaging over 30 mpg if you take into account the cost of LPG i filled up today at 49p/L compared with 117p/l for unleaded
Now please don't think owning a p38 is all going to be great please keep in mind the blocks on the V8 are crap and are prone to liner problem's i have just fitted a short engine to my car which is not a pleasant job. Both variants suffer EAS problems and V8's suffer overheating problems
BUT i still feel fantastic when driving my car!!!!
 
Granted the diesel is a little on the slow side like you say, wash out at the junctions!! but i got mine chipped (superchip) cash in hand cost £100 worth every penny, and got a bigger better intercooler too, it make a vast difference on motorways and mid engine performance, the engine is using lower revs and seems to be just cruising now at 80 (an average motorway speed for me) im getting (i think for the size of the thing and bricks are not very aerodynamic) around 24 MPG, so all in all its not bad, with the changes, if i wanted a fast car at the end of the day, i wouldn't buy a Landy (any of them) and i drive LGV so i get err cheap fuel :eek:
 
andytlman said:
I purchased a 2002 vogue SE 4.6 LPG i absolutely love my p38 although there have been problems which i will come to. Now this is all personal opinion. I test drove a standard diesel and to be honest i found it painfully under powered for such a big car (don't pull out of a junction unless there are no cars in sight!!) i did not think the engine was suitable with an auto box for a range rover and the guy said he was lucky if he got 24 mpg. So my next stop was to drive a V8 i chose the 4.6 as both the 4.0 and 4.6 are awful on fuel i get about 15 mpg but that's on LPG so if you double that I'm averaging over 30 mpg if you take into account the cost of LPG i filled up today at 49p/L compared with 117p/l for unleaded
Now please don't think owning a p38 is all going to be great please keep in mind the blocks on the V8 are crap and are prone to liner problem's i have just fitted a short engine to my car which is not a pleasant job. Both variants suffer EAS problems and V8's suffer overheating problems
BUT i still feel fantastic when driving my car!!!!
Click to expand...

I'll second that, the big v8 only got fooked up because they over-bored a 3.5, and who the fook can live with the fuel consumption, even the fire service ditched theirs, fookin ate it.

Pick something else, a Disco for comfort and off road capability, or a deepender or a series for ultimate off road without the comfort.
 
david451 said:
I'll second that, the big v8 only got fooked up because they over-bored a 3.5, and who the fook can live with the fuel consumption, even the fire service ditched theirs, fookin ate it.

Pick something else, a Disco for comfort and off road capability, or a deepender or a series for ultimate off road without the comfort.
Click to expand...



i can live with the fuel consumption as mines on a fantastic prins sequential LPG system other wise no fookin chance and the V8 sounds fantastic
 
JPM646 said:
i dunno what engine to go for in the p38 was lookin at the bmw 2.5 td but have thourght about the 4.6 vouge? as the differance in price of fule and mpg not a grate differance. whats the history of the 4.6 petrol? wheres it from and how many miles should it be good for? oh and any faults to watch out for? thanks JP
Click to expand...

I tried both the 2.5 and the 4.0's and to be honest I found the 2.5 very guttless and very disapointing.

With diesel being more expensive than petrol, you'd be mad to buy a 2.5 right now even if it does give better MPG.

Your better off with a 4.0 or a 4.6 and convert to Sequential LPG and pay £0.50 per litre and get that almighty whooooosh of power that petrol brings.

Just my opinion....best bet is to go have a play and test drive.
 
I have a 4.6 1997 on 148,000 miles, original GEMS engine. Surprised to see so much scaremongering still on the site. Yes there have been some issues with the V8 but why is no one mentioning the diesel crankshaft problem? Do a search on this forum and you'll find better responses, there are many 4.0 & 4.6's which are well in the high mile region with no problems, likewise the 2.5 diesel, not everyone of these has an issue, as you may feel inclined to believe. Maintenance is the key, I have had no problems with my EAS, I change the filters as specified and I have changed the air springs since owning the car as they will perish over time. Good oil and coolant changes prolong the life of any engine so look for one with a good history. Fuel costs are causing the market for these to be low at the moment so plenty to be had, just dont jump for the first one you see unless it's everything you are looking for.
 
jdennington said:
I have a 4.6 1997 on 148,000 miles, original GEMS engine. Surprised to see so much scaremongering still on the site. Yes there have been some issues with the V8 but why is no one mentioning the diesel crankshaft problem? Do a search on this forum and you'll find better responses, there are many 4.0 & 4.6's which are well in the high mile region with no problems, likewise the 2.5 diesel, not everyone of these has an issue, as you may feel inclined to believe. Maintenance is the key, I have had no problems with my EAS, I change the filters as specified and I have changed the air springs since owning the car as they will perish over time. Good oil and coolant changes prolong the life of any engine so look for one with a good history. Fuel costs are causing the market for these to be low at the moment so plenty to be had, just dont jump for the first one you see unless it's everything you are looking for.
Click to expand...
Its nice to hear a satisfied owner,I just get fed up with fixing the rubbish/telling owners they need a new engine,(Often costs more than the cars is worth.)or it is several hundred pounds to sort it.The BMW engine is just not man enough and the v8 was OK at 3.5 litres,but is not consistently reliable at 3.9/4.0/4.2/4.6 litres - ie,all the 94mm bore variants.
 
eightinavee said:
Its nice to hear a satisfied owner,I just get fed up with fixing the rubbish/telling owners they need a new engine,(Often costs more than the cars is worth.)or it is several hundred pounds to sort it.The BMW engine is just not man enough and the v8 was OK at 3.5 litres,but is not consistently reliable at 3.9/4.0/4.2/4.6 litres - ie,all the 94mm bore variants.
Click to expand...

Thought you said they were all crap up there somewhere ^.
 
Hi
Go for the 4.6 v8 so much more fun, have got a 51 plate vogue with all toys inc Sat Nav and on recent proffesional LPG conversion, really great car, no problems. About to advertise if interested.
Cheers
 
eightinavee said:
Its nice to hear a satisfied owner,I just get fed up with fixing the rubbish/telling owners they need a new engine,(Often costs more than the cars is worth.)or it is several hundred pounds to sort it.The BMW engine is just not man enough and the v8 was OK at 3.5 litres,but is not consistently reliable at 3.9/4.0/4.2/4.6 litres - ie,all the 94mm bore variants.
Click to expand...

I am a great fan of this block..in all its variations.

However, it has long been an accepted fact that the bore out to 94mm, was not structurally prudent..or at least not in the manner they did it. They reduced the block metal between the cylinders by 5.1 mm. They tried to compensate for the resultant reduced strength by shortening the coolant passage at that point, but they only created a weak hot spot.

As the molds aged, some had the coolant passage "wandering" from the center of the remaining metal between the cylinders, thereby reducing the metal between the passage and the liner to paper thickness, As emission laws forced thinner and thinner mixtures, the combustion chamber heat increased and expansion and contraction worked at the weak point, the blocks would crack there on many vehicles (mostly 4.6s), or dislodge a liner.

Near the end of this V8's era at LR, the company was forced to ultrasonically test each block. The best ones would be marked with a red marker in the valley and become 4.6s and the others would become 4.0s.

However, there is a happy continuation of this tale.

An excellent retrofit cure is the use of top hat liners. These are much thicker liners that effectively replace the porous cast aluminium and enhance the structure around the cylinders.

There also a newer and very welcome option. The latest suppliers of the these blocks have created a redesigned ,old and use better casting and finishing practices. They have resolved the issue between cylinders caused by the 94mm overbore and provide much better cooling at the key areas. These blocks are beautiful to behold. They are cast by a company called Coscast..which began as a Cosworth division. The engines, either 4.0 or 4.6 are called Coscast blocks.

Their price was quite high when they first appeared about 18 months ago...but they are very reasonable now. The interesting thing is that they permit a significantly wider bore and that opens up possibilities that a longer stroke could not provide. My guess is one of the racers will come up with a high rpm 6L LR V8 soon.

I do not suggest by this overlong post that pre-Coscast blocks cannot last a long time. They can. It depends on which of the many casts they used to make your engine, your use of the vehicle and your fueling.

In any event, there are long life solutions now.

P.S. There are some who believe that later versions of the engine suffer from leakage (in and out) of the cylinder walls and refer to it as 'porosity' in the block. They say it results in pressurization of the water system, water loss, overheating, hydraulic lock and engine death. I can't buy into that one. The cylinder walls (liners) are steel not porous aluminium.
 
gomog said:
I am a great fan of this block..in all its variations.

However, it has long been an accepted fact that the bore out to 94mm, was not structurally prudent..or at least not in the manner they did it. They reduced the block metal between the cylinders by 5.1 mm. They tried to compensate for the resultant reduced strength by shortening the coolant passage at that point, but they only created a weak hot spot.

As the molds aged, some had the coolant passage "wandering" from the center of the remaining metal between the cylinders, thereby reducing the metal between the passage and the liner to paper thickness, As emission laws forced thinner and thinner mixtures, the combustion chamber heat increased and expansion and contraction worked at the weak point, the blocks would crack there on many vehicles (mostly 4.6s), or dislodge a liner.

Near the end of this V8's era at LR, the company was forced to ultrasonically test each block. The best ones would be marked with a red marker in the valley and become 4.6s and the others would become 4.0s.

However, there is a happy continuation of this tale.

An excellent retrofit cure is the use of top hat liners. These are much thicker liners that effectively replace the porous cast aluminium and enhance the structure around the cylinders.

There also a newer and very welcome option. The latest suppliers of the these blocks have created a redesigned ,old and use better casting and finishing practices. They have resolved the issue between cylinders caused by the 94mm overbore and provide much better cooling at the key areas. These blocks are beautiful to behold. They are cast by a company called Coscast..which began as a Cosworth division. The engines, either 4.0 or 4.6 are called Coscast blocks.

Their price was quite high when they first appeared about 18 months ago...but they are very reasonable now. The interesting thing is that they permit a significantly wider bore and that opens up possibilities that a longer stroke could not provide. My guess is one of the racers will come up with a high rpm 6L LR V8 soon.

I do not suggest by this overlong post that pre-Coscast blocks cannot last a long time. They can. It depends on which of the many casts they used to make your engine, your use of the vehicle and your fueling.

In any event, there are long life solutions now.

P.S. There are some who believe that later versions of the engine suffer from leakage (in and out) of the cylinder walls and refer to it as 'porosity' in the block. They say it results in pressurization of the water system, water loss, overheating, hydraulic lock and engine death. I can't buy into that one. The cylinder walls (liners) are steel not porous aluminium.
Click to expand...

So am I right then to say that it's a lottery in relation to a good one or a bad one, and in the worst case scenario an lpg conversion will kill it, and best case the extra heat might shorten it's life.

Any way to determine which ones were bad from engine numbers.
 
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