L322 Viscous Fan Speed

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marjon said:
Hummm missed that bit;)

Did you perhaps damage the sensor on the front of the fan when you took it off?
I have not been in amongst mine so don’t know.

J
Click to expand...


That I cant answer. the fan came off quite easily with a pully bar and the 36mm fan spanner, grip strength only. however its reasonable to suspect that after a number of years and rotations, it was on the way out, moving it and laying on its side may well have been the end point. funnily enough its been quiet today
 
Datatek said:
I read that as hall effect device is used to detect fan speed. The sensible way of doing that would be to mount the hall effect device on a stationary part and the passive trigger on the rotating part, however there is very little that is sensible in the L322 electronics so who knows, the whole thing is bonkers, a variable electric fan would do the job as is the case on many other vehicles..
Click to expand...


yes it does it has a cable that comes out of the back of the hub and connects to a plug on the cowling. why make it simple when you can make it complex !
 
Here we go.

Note the VF and engine speed at different points.
Screenshot_20190825-111049_IIDControl.jpg
Screenshot_20190825-111521_IIDControl.jpg
Screenshot_20190825-112258_IIDControl.jpg
 
Doing a bit more reading and it seems my 2011 TDV8 don’t have it;)
Had a quick look, but can’t see much.
Seems my manual may stop at 2009. Which seems fine for mechanical setup.

So off on the hunt for another manual that covers 2011.:eek::)

J
 
On gap tool, there is an advanced menu for faults, can't remember exactly which ones I select but you will get a shed load more faults showing. If I do that and clear them it then works OK.
Click to expand...

Pending faults?

How does it detect the viscous speed? Hall sensor? How would that read high
 
Hall sensor

the water pump pully is a smaller in diameter to the main pully giving ratio. so it would give a fan speed higher than the crank speed. im not sure if the electonics just measure the speed or provide clutch engagement. I suspect not as that would moot the viscous couple need.
 
Has anyone looked at or found any data on the viscous fan PWM signal from the ECM and the associated wiring arrangement?
 
Hi guys

I had an issue with My L322 2008 VC FAN , it runs continuously... No fault codes.. however i have swapped it with other 2 cars in my friend's garage and same result..

On OBDII live data shows fan speed is 0 .. so I think that's why its running all the time..

Anyone knows where is that speed sensor located (hall effect sensor) ? Is it part of the fan module itself?

Thanks
 
42er10 said:
Has anyone looked at or found any data on the viscous fan PWM signal from the ECM and the associated wiring arrangement?
Click to expand...


I'm looking for the same thing also.. i need to locate the speed sensor and related connection.

Did you manage to get it?

Thanks
 
Ive joined this forum just to be able to post here.

Ive got a P38 with the bi-metalic viscous fan and im in the process of fitting the elctro viscous from a 4.2 sc L322 to the p38.
Ive got 3 main reasons for doing this.
- Increased fuel effiency form a better fan blade design and having way more control over the fan.
- Increased cooling because of larger fan diameter and better fan blade design.
- Being able to "turn the fan off" when doing a water crossing.

Info ive found so far:

Pin 1 : Grey : Hall effect sensor 12v+ supply
Pin 2 : Green : Hall effect sensor GND
Pin 3 : Blue : Hall effect signal out
Pin 4 : Black : Fan solenoid GND
Pin 5 : White : Fan solenoid 12v+

Pin 1 and 2 is basically power to the hall effect sonsor. Pin 3 is the signal output from the hall effect, inside the ECU pin 3 is pulled up to 12v+ through a resistor and then whenever the hall effect is triggered Pin 3 gets pulled down to GND by the hall effect sensor. The hall effect gives 6 pulses per rotation of the fan. Pin 4 is controlled through a mosfet that is sent a PWM signal, from my limited testing with the car just standing in the garage idling 3Hz PWM frequency seems to work best. Pin 5 is just connected to 12v+ battery power. The solenoid seems to use about max 1.6amps.

Info I need:

There are mentions in the manual that say that if the viscous unit is siezed and the fan is over spun it will explode. I dont know what the max RPM is for the fan.
If someone could do me a huge favour and go drive their L322 till hot and then do some pulls till redline, preferabbly some slow and others with the engine at max load and then look what the max fan RPM is. @ukadamwest
I suspect if the fan is going to spin at over around 3000 RPM the ecu will completely unclock the viscous unit.

If someone has a L322 4.2 SC and a oscilloscope if you could do me a huge favour and measure what the PWM frequency is on pin 4 of that fan connector. Id like to use the same frequency as Land Rover cause then ill know its probably the most effiecient for that solenoid instead of just guessing and looking what seems to work best.
 
FEI said:
Ive joined this forum just to be able to post here.

Ive got a P38 with the bi-metalic viscous fan and im in the process of fitting the elctro viscous from a 4.2 sc L322 to the p38.
Ive got 3 main reasons for doing this.
- Increased fuel effiency form a better fan blade design and having way more control over the fan.
- Increased cooling because of larger fan diameter and better fan blade design.
- Being able to "turn the fan off" when doing a water crossing.

Info ive found so far:

Pin 1 : Grey : Hall effect sensor 12v+ supply
Pin 2 : Green : Hall effect sensor GND
Pin 3 : Blue : Hall effect signal out
Pin 4 : Black : Fan solenoid GND
Pin 5 : White : Fan solenoid 12v+

Pin 1 and 2 is basically power to the hall effect sonsor. Pin 3 is the signal output from the hall effect, inside the ECU pin 3 is pulled up to 12v+ through a resistor and then whenever the hall effect is triggered Pin 3 gets pulled down to GND by the hall effect sensor. The hall effect gives 6 pulses per rotation of the fan. Pin 4 is controlled through a mosfet that is sent a PWM signal, from my limited testing with the car just standing in the garage idling 3Hz PWM frequency seems to work best. Pin 5 is just connected to 12v+ battery power. The solenoid seems to use about max 1.6amps.

Info I need:

There are mentions in the manual that say that if the viscous unit is siezed and the fan is over spun it will explode. I dont know what the max RPM is for the fan.
If someone could do me a huge favour and go drive their L322 till hot and then do some pulls till redline, preferabbly some slow and others with the engine at max load and then look what the max fan RPM is. @ukadamwest
I suspect if the fan is going to spin at over around 3000 RPM the ecu will completely unclock the viscous unit.

If someone has a L322 4.2 SC and a oscilloscope if you could do me a huge favour and measure what the PWM frequency is on pin 4 of that fan connector. Id like to use the same frequency as Land Rover cause then ill know its probably the most effiecient for that solenoid instead of just guessing and looking what seems to work best.
Click to expand...
For the P38, I have a simple mod to dispense with the viscous fan and use the aircon fans for cooling, no L322 type excess complication, works well in an ambient of up 40C and can if needed support an additional fan, not that I have ever found that necessary.
One of the good things about the P38 is that it is relatively straightforward electronically.
If you are interested in the mod that takes about 30 minutes to install, PM me with an email address and I will forward details of my mod.
 
FEI said:
Ive joined this forum just to be able to post here.

Ive got a P38 with the bi-metalic viscous fan and im in the process of fitting the elctro viscous from a 4.2 sc L322 to the p38.
Ive got 3 main reasons for doing this.
- Increased fuel effiency form a better fan blade design and having way more control over the fan.
- Increased cooling because of larger fan diameter and better fan blade design.
- Being able to "turn the fan off" when doing a water crossing.

Info ive found so far:

Pin 1 : Grey : Hall effect sensor 12v+ supply
Pin 2 : Green : Hall effect sensor GND
Pin 3 : Blue : Hall effect signal out
Pin 4 : Black : Fan solenoid GND
Pin 5 : White : Fan solenoid 12v+

Pin 1 and 2 is basically power to the hall effect sonsor. Pin 3 is the signal output from the hall effect, inside the ECU pin 3 is pulled up to 12v+ through a resistor and then whenever the hall effect is triggered Pin 3 gets pulled down to GND by the hall effect sensor. The hall effect gives 6 pulses per rotation of the fan. Pin 4 is controlled through a mosfet that is sent a PWM signal, from my limited testing with the car just standing in the garage idling 3Hz PWM frequency seems to work best. Pin 5 is just connected to 12v+ battery power. The solenoid seems to use about max 1.6amps.

Info I need:

There are mentions in the manual that say that if the viscous unit is siezed and the fan is over spun it will explode. I dont know what the max RPM is for the fan.
If someone could do me a huge favour and go drive their L322 till hot and then do some pulls till redline, preferabbly some slow and others with the engine at max load and then look what the max fan RPM is. @ukadamwest
I suspect if the fan is going to spin at over around 3000 RPM the ecu will completely unclock the viscous unit.

If someone has a L322 4.2 SC and a oscilloscope if you could do me a huge favour and measure what the PWM frequency is on pin 4 of that fan connector. Id like to use the same frequency as Land Rover cause then ill know its probably the most effiecient for that solenoid instead of just guessing and looking what seems to work best.
Click to expand...

I am sorry but there are better ways and agree with @Datatek
You are entering a whole world of hurt instead of an easy solution to your problem/requirements.

J
 
@Datatek ive read about your mod. Ive decided against it and rather for the electro viscous fan.
Reasoning I dont want that extra load on the alternator. Im guessing those AC fans are around 30amp draw and then the largest SPAL i can fit is another 40 amp. So extra 70 amp almost constant draw in hot weather. So that is roughly a 0.9KW of cooling fans.
That will just cause preamature alternator failure.
I live in South Africa, so those fans are going to be on almost permanently.

So looking at some stuff i can find online:
Horton makes electro viscous fans. One of their smaller units takes a 500mm-700mm diameter fan and can provide upto 60nm of torque through to the fan from the engine. The P38 fan has a 460mm diameter fan and the L322 has a 500mm diameter fan. So at 2000RPM fan speed that relates to 12.57KW. So lets be really conservative and say that the P38 viscous fan uses max 5KW.
How does the AC fans and a huge SPAL fan of 0.9KW comare to 5KW of cooling. Then the next question, if all of that 5KW of cooling wasnt necessary why would landrover put it there?

Then another thing is effiency again. There is energy loss converting the rotational energy to electrical, a really good alternator will probably have a 75% effiency. Then later you want to convert the electrical energy back to rotational in the fan, roughly another 70% efficient.
So in order for your alternator to produce 0.9KW you are going to draw +- 1.2KW of energy from the engine and then at the spinning electrical fan you only going to get out 0.63KW of rotational energy.
So with a viscous fan you have none of those losses. The only loss that a viscous fan will have more than a electrical fan is the extra weight of the viscous clutch itsself.
 
FEI said:
@Datatek ive read about your mod. Ive decided against it and rather for the electro viscous fan.
Reasoning I dont want that extra load on the alternator. Im guessing those AC fans are around 30amp draw and then the largest SPAL i can fit is another 40 amp. So extra 70 amp almost constant draw in hot weather. So that is roughly a 0.9KW of cooling fans.
That will just cause preamature alternator failure.
I live in South Africa, so those fans are going to be on almost permanently.

So looking at some stuff i can find online:
Horton makes electro viscous fans. One of their smaller units takes a 500mm-700mm diameter fan and can provide upto 60nm of torque through to the fan from the engine. The P38 fan has a 460mm diameter fan and the L322 has a 500mm diameter fan. So at 2000RPM fan speed that relates to 12.57KW. So lets be really conservative and say that the P38 viscous fan uses max 5KW.
How does the AC fans and a huge SPAL fan of 0.9KW comare to 5KW of cooling. Then the next question, if all of that 5KW of cooling wasnt necessary why would landrover put it there?

Then another thing is effiency again. There is energy loss converting the rotational energy to electrical, a really good alternator will probably have a 75% effiency. Then later you want to convert the electrical energy back to rotational in the fan, roughly another 70% efficient.
So in order for your alternator to produce 0.9KW you are going to draw +- 1.2KW of energy from the engine and then at the spinning electrical fan you only going to get out 0.63KW of rotational energy.
So with a viscous fan you have none of those losses. The only loss that a viscous fan will have more than a electrical fan is the extra weight of the viscous clutch itsself.
Click to expand...
You go your own way but the aircon fans are on anyway if you use the aircon so no extra load and the viscous fan consumes a considerable amount of engine power. The additional fan I have but never fitted draws 20 amps. One way or another you do not get cooling without using power.
 
FEI said:
Ive joined this forum just to be able to post here.

Ive got a P38 with the bi-metalic viscous fan and im in the process of fitting the elctro viscous from a 4.2 sc L322 to the p38.
Ive got 3 main reasons for doing this.
- Increased fuel effiency form a better fan blade design and having way more control over the fan.
- Increased cooling because of larger fan diameter and better fan blade design.
- Being able to "turn the fan off" when doing a water crossing.

Info ive found so far:

Pin 1 : Grey : Hall effect sensor 12v+ supply
Pin 2 : Green : Hall effect sensor GND
Pin 3 : Blue : Hall effect signal out
Pin 4 : Black : Fan solenoid GND
Pin 5 : White : Fan solenoid 12v+

Pin 1 and 2 is basically power to the hall effect sonsor. Pin 3 is the signal output from the hall effect, inside the ECU pin 3 is pulled up to 12v+ through a resistor and then whenever the hall effect is triggered Pin 3 gets pulled down to GND by the hall effect sensor. The hall effect gives 6 pulses per rotation of the fan. Pin 4 is controlled through a mosfet that is sent a PWM signal, from my limited testing with the car just standing in the garage idling 3Hz PWM frequency seems to work best. Pin 5 is just connected to 12v+ battery power. The solenoid seems to use about max 1.6amps.

Info I need:

There are mentions in the manual that say that if the viscous unit is siezed and the fan is over spun it will explode. I dont know what the max RPM is for the fan.
If someone could do me a huge favour and go drive their L322 till hot and then do some pulls till redline, preferabbly some slow and others with the engine at max load and then look what the max fan RPM is. @ukadamwest
I suspect if the fan is going to spin at over around 3000 RPM the ecu will completely unclock the viscous unit.

If someone has a L322 4.2 SC and a oscilloscope if you could do me a huge favour and measure what the PWM frequency is on pin 4 of that fan connector. Id like to use the same frequency as Land Rover cause then ill know its probably the most effiecient for that solenoid instead of just guessing and looking what seems to work best.
Click to expand...

Usually the fan fails by failing to lock up. I've never heard of one exploding on a P38A, although that doesn't mean it isn't possible. It certainly can be damaged by wading although so far I have been lucky and it just chucked water all over the engine. I think @Salisbury Nick was not so lucky? @Graculus might know more about the L322 fan.
 
FEI said:
Ive joined this forum just to be able to post here.

Ive got a P38 with the bi-metalic viscous fan and im in the process of fitting the elctro viscous from a 4.2 sc L322 to the p38.
Ive got 3 main reasons for doing this.
- Increased fuel effiency form a better fan blade design and having way more control over the fan.
- Increased cooling because of larger fan diameter and better fan blade design.
- Being able to "turn the fan off" when doing a water crossing.

Info ive found so far:

Pin 1 : Grey : Hall effect sensor 12v+ supply
Pin 2 : Green : Hall effect sensor GND
Pin 3 : Blue : Hall effect signal out
Pin 4 : Black : Fan solenoid GND
Pin 5 : White : Fan solenoid 12v+

Pin 1 and 2 is basically power to the hall effect sonsor. Pin 3 is the signal output from the hall effect, inside the ECU pin 3 is pulled up to 12v+ through a resistor and then whenever the hall effect is triggered Pin 3 gets pulled down to GND by the hall effect sensor. The hall effect gives 6 pulses per rotation of the fan. Pin 4 is controlled through a mosfet that is sent a PWM signal, from my limited testing with the car just standing in the garage idling 3Hz PWM frequency seems to work best. Pin 5 is just connected to 12v+ battery power. The solenoid seems to use about max 1.6amps.

Info I need:

There are mentions in the manual that say that if the viscous unit is siezed and the fan is over spun it will explode. I dont know what the max RPM is for the fan.
If someone could do me a huge favour and go drive their L322 till hot and then do some pulls till redline, preferabbly some slow and others with the engine at max load and then look what the max fan RPM is. @ukadamwest
I suspect if the fan is going to spin at over around 3000 RPM the ecu will completely unclock the viscous unit.

If someone has a L322 4.2 SC and a oscilloscope if you could do me a huge favour and measure what the PWM frequency is on pin 4 of that fan connector. Id like to use the same frequency as Land Rover cause then ill know its probably the most effiecient for that solenoid instead of just guessing and looking what seems to work best.
Click to expand...
Yeah
I just want to know if there is someone out there willing to check what the max RPM is on the L322 fan and what the PWM frequency is on the fan solenoid.
 
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