Veg oil conversion

Has anyone got and experience with these veg oil conversion kitt in 200tdi engines.

I ran the math and at "roughly" 18p a litre (veg oil) at a worst case 22 mpg... You can run a landy on 3.68p per mile, compared to 23p per mile on diesel. That seems pretty good to me.

Any thoughts?

Where are you finding veg at 18ppl?

Like most things its not as simple as it first appears, Ive come across a couple of tdi inj pumps that have been screwed with running non heated veg oil.

I tried it years ago with new virgin veg oil, what I found was once I got above 50 percent mix the car was defo down on power, at the time it seemed everyone else was also playing with it and I often smelt chip oil smell in traffic jams etc, I havent smelt it for years so assume most have given up?

There are a few place son industrial estates etc that sell bio diesel, so might be worth a word.

Benbeaum97 said:

Has anyone got and experience with these veg oil conversion kitt in 200tdi engines.

I ran the math and at "roughly" 18p a litre (veg oil) at a worst case 22 mpg... You can run a landy on 3.68p per mile, compared to 23p per mile on diesel. That seems pretty good to me.

Any thoughts?

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Conversion kit? I thought they just poured it in the tank?

18p sounds way too cheap, I thought it was just a bit cheaper than current diesel prices. I have never used it myself, but if I wanted to I wouldn't just use it out of the tin, I would refine it to biofuel, filtration and additives IIRC.
Servicing and tuning can improve fuel mileage, even on pump fuel.

Don't forget that fuel is only part of the cost of running the vehicle, tax, insurance, repairs, oil and tyres may cost as much unless you do a lot of miles.

Sorry folk, looked back on the website for bulk buy veg oil and it hadn't been updated since 2007.

I've been doing a bit of research. Basically what I can make out is that veg oil is very similar in makeup to diesel, the only real difference is the viscosity (how thick it is.) You can get kits that use two fuel tanks (perfect for series that have space for another fuel tank under the left seat.) One has diesel in and the other has the veg oil. You start the engine on the diesel and that heats up the engine. The kit involves the fuel tank with a devise in that (I think) uses the radiator fluids to heat up the oil therefore making it runnier and more engine friendly than neat. A switch is flicked and the oil tank is used.

I've also been flicking through a few other forums that suggest it's a particular breed of pump that's affected, also problems with oil damaging seals and leaking into the stump and reacting with something.

A few links...

http://www.biotuning.co.uk/Kits.htm

http://www.reedx.net/landrover/mods/vegoil/p2.php

As you can see there are a few plot holes in my understanding so I'll keep on with the research.

Thanks for the replies.

Bit similar to the old TVO system. Afraid I am still sceptical. How long does it take to save enough to pay for the kit?

I don't read other forums, but my own experience suggests that most injection pumps are best run on as clean diesel as possible, and maybe some lubricity additive.
Some seem to get away with it, but the refined stuff is better than neat for pumps.

If you are really keen, why not just try tank mixing, maybe just a gallon of veg in the tank at first, the diesel will thin out the veg plenty. If you do start running veg, change your fuel filter shortly after, it can dislodge all kinds of muck out of the system.

Benbeaum97 said:

Has anyone got and experience with these veg oil conversion kitt in 200tdi engines

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Yes I run a 200tdi with a bio tuning twin tank kit fitted. My honest advice is only do it if you are going to be doing big mileage, its just not worth it otherwise. Mine took a lot of setting up and problem solving to get it running well (touches wood). But if you don't mind the continueous tinkering and the grovelling about in the dark at the side of the road while another load of boiling hot oil pours down your arms.... and another fuel filter slips through your fingers and thuds into the gravel below ...(sorry I've not got over it yet) then give it a go.
Done about 5k miles so far and it still makes me smile when I switch over to the veg tank and know that I'm running on 29p per litre WVO. I filter it down to 1 micron before using, which is another reason you have to be committed to doing it because there is extra work involved.
I love it now but if you had asked me when I was trying to get it sorted(mostly air being pulled into the system) I wondered on more than one occasion if it was worth it. If you do it don't put the veg oil in straight away, get it running right with both tanks on diesel and then start putting veg in. Then get ready with the fuel filters because the veg cleans your tank and lines out, I think I only did 500 mile on the first one before it blocked.
Watch out for the seals in the injection pump as the wvo can attack them over time, fit Viton heavy duty ones if you can.
I can recommend bio tuning, excellent customer service, very helpful if you are having problems.

I run with veg oil put in with diesel , but only in the summer and only up to 50%.. I only use new oil, unfortunately I don't have a trade card so the best I can get vegi oil is 80p but that's still a 30p saving.

Magic thanks bigstuey,

Hahaha seems like I've got a few interesting moments ahead. I'll be doing some serious mirage in it hopefully, driving across the country to see my old mans a little costly at the moment

I do have a few questions...

Do you use a specific 1micron filter? Do you get waste oil or buy bulk from a company?
What kind of oil do you use? (Veg/rapeseed)
Any idea how many MPG you get out of the oil?
Can filters be washed and re used or do they need replacing and binning?
What caused the air to be sucked into the system?

Thank you

As for not having a trade account, there's two little shops near me one Chinese and the other polish that both sell large 25L bottles of the stuff? Maybe you could try one near you

Get the filters off ebay, I think its filterbagman in Bradford, they are filter socks, I use 3, 25micron, 5 micron then 1 micron. Stuff the 25 into the 5 and then stuff them both inside the 1 micron so you only need to filter through them once. I use a wheely bin with a tap near the bottom and hang the bags through an old door that I've cut a hole out of. Its cutting edge stuff I know but stay with me here. I have started putting old jeans legs in aswell so the dirty oil goes through that first, it keeps the actual filters really clean, you do have to clean them every so often which is not a pleasant task but when you pull the jeans leg out all the fat stays in there and you can just throw that away. Just pour the dirty oil in at the top and tap off the clean oil to pour into the tank.
I buy 300 litres at a time and have a couple of suppliers that collect it and part filter it so I don't get any water and solids in it. If you get water in it it will knacker your injectors so make sure its well settled as oil floats on water so the water will drop to the bottom.
That is as basic as a filter set up gets but its the way to go when you are just starting. Some people have fancy pumped systems with inline filters and heated settling tanks for de watering.
The oil is just basic vegetable oil, one supplier gets it from Chinese takeaways and his oil is very clean, my other supplier gets it from takeaways in Bradford and has more fats in it and smells a bit more interesting as your driving along...
I don't worry about miles per gallon anymore, my wifes Vectra does 50mpg and it costs half as much to run the landy. I brim the veg tank(which is the original fuel tank) for less than £15.00 and the only diesel I use is about 2 miles when I set off to get a bit of warmth in the engine, then before stopping 30 seconds on purge and a couple of hundred yards on diesel and its good to start next day, whatever the temp outside is.
Have a look on vegetableoildiesel.co.uk its a forum dedicated to running on veg oil, you can learn loads from it including the problems with air being sucked into the fuel pipes.

A friend of mine has ruined two brand new car engines with using cooking oil from a wholesaler, one was a new puegeot and the other was a new kia 4x4, neither of them would replace the engine.

Perhaps you need to tell your friend veg oil in any common rail motor is a bad idea.

Maybe should have realised that after the first engine?
I have been waiting for the doom sayers to jump in....the op was asking about the 200tdi, there is very good reason we still run the Vectra on pump diesel.

Veg oil will ruin you car, take up all your spare time, stain all your clothes, make all your friend turn against you, leave everyone behind you looking for the fish & chip shop and boar 99% of all people you tell about it.

Oh and everything that goes wrong with your car will be down to the veg, even wiper blades and tyres.

On the plus side you'll have a warm feeling every time you pass people queuing at the tax station (fuel station to everyone else).
I've been running veg/biodiesel for years (straight veg and biodiesel are to different thing by the way) probably covered close to 200k and have no intention of stopping yet.

At present I'm going back to running veg as bio takes up too much time.

Benbeaum97 said:

As for not having a trade account, there's two little shops near me one Chinese and the other polish that both sell large 25L bottles of the stuff? Maybe you could try one near you

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Well that'll be a 50 mile round trip then....

As above with what The Q says - Contrary to the horror stories, I run my 300tdi with a twin tank setup and have done over 40,000m now on free waste veg oil and find its the only way to afford to drive around like its still the 1990's!

I love that feeling of just going for a drive or doing a 100 mile round trip when I would have to very carefully work out if if I could afford it when on diesel or petrol

I didn't bother with a kit, just assembled everything myself and have very good reliability from my WVO system. I've also helped a mate with his 300tdi conversion and the one on his 2002 Passat tdi, as that also has the Bosch fuel injection pump, and he does big miles - over 250,000m in the last few years in his and now runs on new rapeseed oil bought in bulk (1000L) at 45p/ltr, but ran his disco on some really nasty crap in the early days but it did it with only a few minor grumbles and 100% reliability.

We both used similar components and he also put his conversion together from parts sourced off the net.


I don't bother with filter bags anymore though, I've gone for a 240v pump and filter heads with 10,5,1 micron filters in and it's loads better!

You'll need to add something to add back the fuel lubricity which is very important for the injection pump and injectors - mineral two stroke oil is good, as is millers ecomax and ZX1 extralube, though they go up in cost in that order. Between my car and my mates two cars, we've now done nearly 300k between us using TSO without faults or poor running.

Veg oil has higher lubrication qualities than diesel, so I have no idea why you feel the need to add two stroke oil.
One thing to keep in mind is since sulphur was removed from pump diesel they have been adding small % of biodiesel, they claim it's for the environment, but in truth it's for lubrication.

markSX said:

Veg oil has higher lubrication qualities than diesel, so I have no idea why you feel the need to add two stroke oil.
One thing to keep in mind is since sulphur was removed from pump diesel they have been adding small % of biodiesel, they claim it's for the environment, but in truth it's for lubrication.

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I'm not sure where you're getting that info from Mark, but that's contrary to everything that I've heard/read since I started researching and using veg oil as fuel.

In my own experience this has been borne out by adding lube to the fuel like Millers Ecomax, ZX1 or Two stroke oil - without these the engine struggles to rev through the normal upper rpm range (eg 2200 - 3500), but with them it's fine.
As the fuel isn't really going to make much difference to mechanical drag/lubrication of pistons, it can only be the fuel delivery system that is suffering, as it runs at high pressure and is lubricated by the fuel only and must be that the IP and injectors are only able to work at limited speed due to the lack of lubricity in the fuel.