P38A V8 De-Catting advice

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
Not to be a downer but that won't make more than a horse difference unless there seriously blocked. This mod is overrated and a waste of effort.
On its own it might have limited gains, but gains it will. As part of other mods it can make a difference. But most power gains from the exhaust are by fitting long tube headers. This does make a difference. And a free flowing exhaust will only help.
 
Your vehicles log book designated fuel will be petrol, therefore is MUST be given a full cat test no matter what it is running on at the time of test. On this class of vehicle if a cat is missing that was fitted as standard it is an automatic fail.
Do you have a link to Suport this?
 
Extractor exhausts have a bigger bang clearing out the cylinder. But as a cheap mod decat is pure boy racer noise making. It could even lose power. A change from twin to single straight through is good though.
 
Is there anywhere that sells performance manifolds in the UK I’ve struggled to find any?
I think you’ll struggle. You might have to get them made up tbh.

The trouble is you need what the Americans would call a long tube header. In the U.K. we normally just refer to them as tubular manifolds.

But there is a huge difference in what they do. On a naturally aspirated engine you want to promote a thing called exhaust scavenging. This is essentially where the exhaust from one cylinder helps suck more air into the cylinder with the inlet valve currently open.

This increases the charge density. This is so much more important than flow rate in most cases.

However as you can surmise. It’s quite a timing issue to get the right exhaust outlet primary to pass the right cylinder just when the inlet valve is open.

There are normally three different types of tubular header:

-shorties which are not much bigger than stock manifolds just made up from tubular section often a 3 into 2 into 1 step

-mid length which have much longer primaries

-long tube which have much longer primaries again.


The rule goes. The longer the primary the lower the rpm you’ll promote exhaust scavenging.

As the RV8 is a low revving engine you’ll see no real scavenging with shorty headers. Although because they flow well they are ideal for forced induction setups. Where it is all about flow rates.

Long tubes are what you need. They match the Rev range of most road going engines and especially OHV V8’s perfectly.

I have some on my 3.9 RV8 powered TR7 V8. They are essentially what the Works rally cars used to run. I think they have 2.75 or 3” collectors and run from the engine past the bell housing to the gearbox. And they work very very well. Running these and some other mods my previous cammed 3.5 made 230bhp flywheel est on the rolling road.

Just to give you an idea what a long tube header looks like:
factory-vs-dynatech.jpg
 
Do you have a link to Suport this?
Mot inspection manual. Easily available to download. If a car is listed in the appendices, it gets a cat test and needs to have a cat. Unfortunately, it is not straightforward to read. It says to look at the flow charts in 7.3c but you can only tell which section you are reading (ABC) from the chapter contents page. It could easily prove confusing to the average grease monkey which @wammers is not.
Where this tester may have gone wrong is by looking at the flow chart in 7.3b which says that gas cars are subject to a non cat test (still an emissions test though, albeit easier, so saying it doesn't need an emissions test is wrongliest of most)
 
I think you’ll struggle. You might have to get them made up tbh.

The trouble is you need what the Americans would call a long tube header. In the U.K. we normally just refer to them as tubular manifolds.

But there is a huge difference in what they do. On a naturally aspirated engine you want to promote a thing called exhaust scavenging. This is essentially where the exhaust from one cylinder helps suck more air into the cylinder with the inlet valve currently open.

This increases the charge density. This is so much more important than flow rate in most cases.

However as you can surmise. It’s quite a timing issue to get the right exhaust outlet primary to pass the right cylinder just when the inlet valve is open.

There are normally three different types of tubular header:

-shorties which are not much bigger than stock manifolds just made up from tubular section often a 3 into 2 into 1 step

-mid length which have much longer primaries

-long tube which have much longer primaries again.


The rule goes. The longer the primary the lower the rpm you’ll promote exhaust scavenging.

As the RV8 is a low revving engine you’ll see no real scavenging with shorty headers. Although because they flow well they are ideal for forced induction setups. Where it is all about flow rates.

Long tubes are what you need. They match the Rev range of most road going engines and especially OHV V8’s perfectly.

I have some on my 3.9 RV8 powered TR7 V8. They are essentially what the Works rally cars used to run. I think they have 2.75 or 3” collectors and run from the engine past the bell housing to the gearbox. And they work very very well. Running these and some other mods my previous cammed 3.5 made 230bhp flywheel est on the rolling road.

Just to give you an idea what a long tube header looks like:
factory-vs-dynatech.jpg


Good information! What sort of gains would be expected from just the long tube manifolds? I have seen some available in the states.

I’ve only got experience in tuning turbo jap cars. Currently have a 1.8 4 cylinder CA18DET Nissan 200sx dyno’d 357hp the flywheel weighing a little over a ton It doesn’t come out in the winter
 
For what its worth my 2 pennies, I replaced my completed exhaust including cats for nice new ones I sometimes remove the centre box and fit a straight pipe and I can honestly say the car seems to be more freer flowing but and there is a but it causes the front down pipes under the drivers seat to resonate badly the exhaust pulse can clearly be felt threw the floor pan and it drones until about 65 on the motor way, sounds nice around town.

I usually last a month before refitting the centre box so to avoid the drone and the under drivers seat resonating i experience i will refit the centre box as it clearly smooths out the exhaust pulses and will be removing the rear boxes next time to see how that goes.

Why not just replace the exhaust if it knackerd and enjoy
 
Good information! What sort of gains would be expected from just the long tube manifolds? I have seen some available in the states.

I’ve only got experience in tuning turbo jap cars. Currently have a 1.8 4 cylinder CA18DET Nissan 200sx dyno’d 357hp the flywheel weighing a little over a ton It doesn’t come out in the winter
The cost / gain ratio is higher than tuning
turbo cars. You can quickly end up with a money pit on your hands and an asset worth a lot less than you've spent.
 
Good information! What sort of gains would be expected from just the long tube manifolds
think janspeed claim 15bhp for theirs. If the RPeyes of this world are to be believed, the p38 runs lean so £750 to mark Adams might be prudent before bolting on induction and exhaust mods.
 
The cost / gain ratio is higher than tuning
turbo cars. You can quickly end up with a money pit on your hands and an asset worth a lot less than you've spent.

This really depends tbh. I know in the U.K. people like to believe turbo equals easy massive power gains. But often you’ll find a new bigger turbo is needed and quite often a rebuilt engine with stronger forged pistons, rods and crank. Not to mention being charge or intercoolers and in all cases a bigger free flowing exhaust and down pipes.

For example I bet the ops Nissan wasn’t exactly a £500 mod to get that sort of power.

The RV8 is no power house and is from a different era. But a cam, tune and breathing mods should see an honest 260-280hp and not be crazy money.

Of course there are turbo and supercharger kits or home built solutions. 300-400hp quite possible with ease if you want.
 
260hp is 8hp more than Rover stated the 4.6 should have to start with . Anyone whose driven a gems then a Thor knows what's needed is torque. Easiest way to get torque is increased cubic capacity. Think 5l plus. Cam tune and breathing may make 252bhp what it should have been from the factory.but the increased torque will scare you. V8s can be really torquey. At this point you wish you had the biggest torque converter from the early p38. Not the crappy one on the 4l 4hp22!
 
260hp is 8hp more than Rover stated the 4.6 should have to start with . Anyone whose driven a gems then a Thor knows what's needed is torque. Easiest way to get torque is increased cubic capacity. Think 5l plus. Cam tune and breathing may make 252bhp what it should have been from the factory.but the increased torque will scare you. V8s can be really torquey. At this point you wish you had the biggest torque converter from the early p38. Not the crappy one on the 4l 4hp22!
The 4.6 was rated at 225hp and then 214hp for the latter Thor’s Land Rover got taken to court in the USA and lost.

Never seen them claimed as 252. Do you have a link?
 
no it doesn't
Not if you are ignorant to facts and reason, no. For everyone living in reality it’s a very simple yes ;)

280 HP will cost over 3 grand on a p38
But as @johnnyb70 points out, torque matters more than talk ;)
More torque will give you more HP.

As for price. Totally depends on what you do. How much labour you pay and which parts you use.

But do your seriously think rebuilding a 4 pot turbo unit with better internals doesn’t cost a **** load of money???? Are you naive to the costs?
 
Not if you are ignorant to facts and reason, no. For everyone living in reality it’s a very simple yes ;)

OK apples for apples. I can take a 2.5 Subaru turbo 225bhp and spend £300 on a 280bhp remap. Coincidentally that's the power output of the nearly twice the size 4.6 rover v8. So how much to make it put out 280bhp?
More torque will give you more HP.

As for price. Totally depends on what you do. How much labour you pay and which parts you use.
Over £3000 in parts. Don't sh1te on about better internals. Not many engines with such a weak margin of safety as the rover v8
 
Well the cost to get that figure from that little 1.8 was phenomenal for it to run reliably. As expected fully forged internals, standalone ecu, MAP Sensor, injectors, hybrid turbo, huge front mount, cast manifold, 3" straight thru i could go on but you get the picture! Either way if its wet and or cold enough its the slowest thing on the road due to the peaky nature of its tune!

Got some progress modifying the cats today and tried removing the manifold. Couldn't get that last bolt out though so will have to remove the steering shaft. I think i will forget about tuning it for now?! I have read i may need to remove the starter motor to allow enough room to drop the manifold out of the car so i can drill the broken studs out, can anyone confirm this?
 
You can remove the manifold without removing the starter(just). Remember how it goes though for putting it back. If you can undo the bolts removing the starter is also straightforward.
Jb
 
They are threaded. Easiest way to sort is remove the manifold(s) and do it with manifold in bench vice. Lots of heat, lubricate, heat, lubricate, and eventually they will move with mole-grips. If they snapped flush with manifold then you're gonna be drilling, or finding replacement manifolds.

View attachment 134318
Yes, I know it is an old thread, but had a 2 pennorth to add. Another trick, instead of mole grips, would be to bench vice and then weld a bar or a chunky nut / bolt to the broken stud (s). It gives you a lot more grip and the welding heat will also help trying to free it off. That is an old trick for UJM 4 cylinder engines where the oil filter was mounted on the front crankcase below the centre cylinders and got all the road crud and corrosion, plus usually only being a 10 or 12 mm head. Quick grind clean, then weld on a 17mm nut using the centre hole to plug weld. Bolt comes out easy as afterwards.
I'd probably go for something like a 22 or 24 mm nut on the broken studs on the manifold flange though.
 
Back
Top