Turbo failure ?

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Hi all, further to my earlier posts for my misfiring probs ( F1 D ) I now use the car by not going over 3000 rpm. This seems to solve the problem but there's still a noticeable lack of power. I was wondering if the turbo had failed ?
Is there a simple test a non mechanic ( me ) can perform ?
I'm not using any oil and no smoke is ever exiting exhaust.
Recently she's started hunting at idle ie every second or so revs rise slightly then fall back.
As always any help much appreciated.

Nodge68 · Mar 8, 2018

It's not unknown for the cat on the L series to clog up. This would cause low power issues.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
It's not unknown for the cat on the L series to clog up. This would cause low power issues.

Thanks Nodge I'd not considered that, is there a test or quick fix for that ? Ie an additive I could add to the fuel or am I looking at replacement ?

90jc · Mar 8, 2018

I came across a company called midland turbo recently, very helpfull people. They quoted me £190 to recondition my turbo (new seals and bearings) and a max of 260 if it needs ingernal machining. This included them collecting and returnig turbo to me and recon i will have it back in about 4 days. Just thought it might be of interest.

Nodge68 · Mar 8, 2018

Stuart hall said:
Thanks Nodge I'd not considered that, is there a test or quick fix for that ? Ie an additive I could add to the fuel or am I looking at replacement ?

You'll need to split the exhaust joint near the cat so you can look at it. A clogged cat is obvious. The quick fix is to simply knock the substrate out with a stout bar or tube, the vacuum out the debris.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

90jc said:
I came across a company called midland turbo recently, very helpfull people. They quoted me £190 to recondition my turbo (new seals and bearings) and a max of 260 if it needs ingernal machining. This included them collecting and returnig turbo to me and recon i will have it back in about 4 days. Just thought it might be of interest.

Thanks 90jc unfortunately I'm in Lanzarote ! I'm having trouble finding an honest/reliable garage over here.
A blocked cat sounds like a possibility as I can no longer feel or hear the turbo working. As said I'm not puffing out smoke or using any oil.
I have the dreaded mot next week so hope emissions are ok.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
You'll need to split the exhaust joint near the cat so you can look at it. A clogged cat is obvious. The quick fix is to simply knock the substrate out with a stout bar or tube, the vacuum out the debris.

I trust the local garage to do that, their good with hammers and iron bars.
IF it passes emissions test perhaps I could take cat off, run without to test it ?

Nodge68 · Mar 8, 2018

Stuart hall said:
I trust the local garage to do that, their good with hammers and iron bars.
IF it passes emissions test perhaps I could take cat off, run without to test it ?

You can get a cat replacement pipe, but it could fail your local emissions test if it's not fitted. Bashing the guts out is an easy way to achieve the same results, but still looks like the cat ia there.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
You can get a cat replacement pipe, but it could fail your local emissions test if it's not fitted. Bashing the guts out is an easy way to achieve the same results, but still looks like the cat ia there.

Thanks again Nodge, think I'll take her for test first to see what else needs doing !
The test centre wasn't happy that all the prop diff etc has been removed so I'll have to see.
Here they class it as changed from manufacturers spec. but since found out they do that if you've just had a tow bar fitted.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Just looking on flea bay, looks like a new cats under £50 !
Don't suppose there much cop for that and no idea what one would cost here.

GrumpyGel · Mar 8, 2018

Mine is really slow accelerating from stand still - almost embarrassingly so! Once its moving, through the "mid range" for overtaking etc, it seems pretty OK.

To get half decent acceleration from stand still, I have to really give it some with the loud peddle - this will be accompanied by lots of black smoke - probably starts at about 3K revs.

The other day I pulled up to a set of lights and a TD5 Defender pulled up in the lane next to me. I didn't want to be embarrassed by the big brother so made sure I wasn't going to be to slow away from the lights. When the lights went green, I did beat him away - but in my mirror I noticed my cloud of black smoke was bigger than his cloud of black smoke !

I recently tried to address the smoke issue. I knew the gasket between plenum and inlet manifold was broken (from when I cleaned the plenum out) and the intercooler to plenum hose had a small split by the jubilee clip. So I replaced these, as well as fitting a new air filter - but it doesn't appear to have made much difference.

Like your engine, it doesn't use oil, although the underneath of the engine is caked in it and it does drip on the drive. I to can't hear the turbo, however, with all the rest of the noise going on, that's not to surprising

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Lol

GrumpyGel said:
Mine is really slow accelerating from stand still - almost embarrassingly so! Once its moving, through the "mid range" for overtaking etc, it seems pretty OK.

To get half decent acceleration from stand still, I have to really give it some with the loud peddle - this will be accompanied by lots of black smoke - probably starts at about 3K revs.

The other day I pulled up to a set of lights and a TD5 Defender pulled up in the lane next to me. I didn't want to be embarrassed by the big brother so made sure I wasn't going to be to slow away from the lights. When the lights went green, I did beat him away - but in my mirror I noticed my cloud of black smoke was bigger than his cloud of black smoke !

I recently tried to address the smoke issue. I knew the gasket between plenum and inlet manifold was broken (from when I cleaned the plenum out) and the intercooler to plenum hose had a small split by the jubilee clip. So I replaced these, as well as fitting a new air filter - but it doesn't appear to have made much difference.

Like your engine, it doesn't use oil, although the underneath of the engine is caked in it and it does drip on the drive. I to can't hear the turbo, however, with all the rest of the noise going on, that's not to surprising

Lol, yes lots of noise ! I gave a friend a lift the other day and he said without doubt it's the noisiest and the most bone shaking car he's ever been in.

GrumpyGel · Mar 8, 2018

Stuart hall said:
Lol

Lol, yes lots of noise ! I gave a friend a lift the other day and he said without doubt it's the noisiest and the most bone shaking car he's ever been in.

Slow - Check
Noisy - Check
Smokey - Check
Bone Shaking - Negative

The ride on mine is pretty good and comfy. No complaints from passengers either and its used to ferry guests around town and long distances regularly.

It was a bone shaker when I put an aftermarket engine mount on, but going back to the original (which had failed a WOF but looked fine) sorted that out.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Only put bone shaker because I couldn't spell rattliest lol
Think pedro and his merry men ruined engine mounts when they jacked up the engine to change water pump !
Your laughing in yours as I can't push mine over 3000 rpm if I do all hell breaks out !

GrumpyGel · Mar 8, 2018

Stuart hall said:
Only put bone shaker because I couldn't spell rattliest lol
Think pedro and his merry men ruined engine mounts when they jacked up the engine to change water pump !
Your laughing in yours as I can't push mine over 3000 rpm if I do all hell breaks out !

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

GrumpyGel said:

You've helped me decide Grumpy, I'm going out tomorrow and am really gonna give her some beans.
Kill or cure. If you hear a loud explosion you know it didn't go to plan !

Nodge68 · Mar 8, 2018

I wouldn't describe the Freelander as boneshaking, far from it. Mine is noisy from the AT tyres and the diesel clatter but otherwise it's ride is smooth as silk.

Stuart hall · Mar 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
I wouldn't describe the Freelander as boneshaking, far from it. Mine is noisy from the AT tyres and the horrible diesel clarrer but otherwise it's smooth as silk.

It's really very bad Nodge, everything vibrates, the dash, clutch pedal, most interior trim even down to the mirror on the sun visor !
Wouldn't know about tyre noise, it's so loud don't think you could tell if it had no tyres.

Nodge68 · Mar 8, 2018

It sounds like your engine mounts have failed. The engine is well insulated from the body and shouldn't vibrate it like you describe. My TD4 is does have more vibration than my old V6, but that's an unfair comparison as the V6 is so vibration free.
But in general, the Freelander should be pretty quiet and free from excessive vibration.

GrumpyGel · Mar 8, 2018

Nodge68 said:
It sounds like your engine mounts have failed. The engine is well insulated from the body and shouldn't vibrate it like you describe. My TD4 is does have more vibration than my old V6, but that's an unfair comparison as the V6 is so vibration free.
But in general, the Freelander should be pretty quiet and free from excessive vibration.

+1

It sounds like exactly the behaviour I got with a Bearmach engine mount.

I'm not sure what to recommend because an original LR engine mount is stupid money and the aftermarket one I tried was useless.

You could possibly try an aftermarket engine mount and tie bar bush - there's a thread going about that at the moment.

Maybe see if you can get 1 from a breakers - mine is 19 years old and still serviceable - although I think its probably stiffened up over the years and is causing clutch judder.

I wonder if your local grease monkeys have damaged the arm coming off the engine to the mount - maybe tried to remove it and broken some of the bolts holding it on.

I haven't a clue how you can tell if the turbo and its components (wastegate?) are working. Live feed from a diagnostics device would tell you what the MAP sensor is telling the ECU - but that assumes the MAP sensor is working properly. I wonder if you could install a boost gauge?

Turbo failure ?

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