Freelander 1 Track rod inboard bushes

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
A

Avocet1

Well-Known Member
Posts
4,931
Location
Cumbria
Hi All, MOT on Wednesday :eek: and a slight knocking from the front. I can't find anything wrong with droplinks, ARB bushes, track rod ends or bottom balljoints, but I think there might be a tiny bit of play in the inboard end of one of the track rods, where they bolt to the centre of the rack. I was just wondering what sort of job it was, and whether I could just replace the rubber bushes?
 
Funnily enough, I've literally just ordered new ends and arms for mine. I've replaced virtually all rubbers on the old girl over the last couple of years so with my track rod ends now showing some wear, I thought I'd do the arms too so everything is new. Also, I thought its possibly easier doing the whole arms than freeing off the track rod end bolts and struggling with the adjuster that can be siezed.
 
GrumpyGel said:
Not touched them on mine, and not heard of them being a problem on here before, so can't help.

Did you get your chicken coop door sorted? :D
Click to expand...

OK, ta. I'll wait & see what the MOT throws up.

Funny you should mention the chicken house! Yes, it's just about there now - which is good because he's going to have to hand in the project any day now. It was supposed to be in at the end of the Summer term but with the whole Covid thing going on, they got the Summer holidays to work on their projects too, and now they're just waiting for the teacher to call time on the whole thing.

I can't remember the last time it was discussed, but he had to give up on the idea of using calculated sunrise / sunset times. The programming was too hard. He went back to the light sensor idea. That's working now, but just needs the light values tweaking a bit, as it tends to close a bit early and rise a bit late. We're just waiting for some different weather to see if that's still the case when it's not sunny. The 10W solar panel was totally inadequate (it seems they'll only give out 10W on a cloudless day, on the equator, in mid Summer, at the moment the sun is directly shining on them)! I've had to buy him a second one, so we have one facing South and another facing West. This last week, (which has been sunny), they have coped easily with the 50mA constant draw from the Arduino and the DC-DC converter, but it remains to be seen how they manage in Winter. He also ditched the separate solenoid latch, in favour of a mechanical latch that he saw in a YouTube video (or at least, a slight variation on it). I'll try to post some pics.
 
Avocet1 said:
I was just wondering what sort of job it was, and whether I could just replace the rubber bushes?
Click to expand...
The bushes aren't commercially available, but the complete track rods aren't that expensive. I have made up some Polyurethane bushes in the past, which did the trick.

Avocet1 said:
The 10W solar panel was totally inadequate (it seems they'll only give out 10W on a cloudless day, on the equator, in mid Summer, at the moment the sun is directly shining on them)! I've had to buy him a second one, so we have one facing South and another facing West.
Click to expand...

A 10 Watt rated solar panel, will make 10 Watts. However the full wattage will only be obtained if:

A: the sun energy is at strength of 1000W per square metre (Only available around peak summer in the UK).
B: the panel voltage is at it VMPP (Maximum Power Point Voltage), which is normally around 18 Volts for a 12 Volt panel.
C: the panel current is at the IMPP (Maximum Power Point Current), which is just a bit lower than the short circuit current, probably around 0.55A in this instance.
Both these ratings are normally on the panel's label.

If you are using a PWM charge controller, then the panel voltage will be pulled down to the battery voltage, which reduces the panel wattage as a result.

If you take the VMPP of 18V and multiply it by 0.55A, then you'll see a Maximum output of around 10W, remember this is in full summer sun, and panel alignment spot on. A few degrees off axis will reduce the power output markedly.

Now look at what happens with the panel at NBV (Nominal Battery Voltage), of 12.6V.
The panel voltage is now 12.6V multiplied by the same 0.55A, you'll see the output is now 6.93W, again full summer sun, perfectly on axis, so the power available is much less than the panels true rating.

There are 2 methods to get round this derating issue.
The 1st is to over panel the setup, and my preferred method to maintain a decent level of charge. If this is used in combination with a low energy charge controller (the PWM5 is my preferred one), then you should be able to keep the battery charging all year round.

The second and not my preference on low power solar is to use an MPPT charge controller, which should extract more energy from the panel, however on low power systems, the operating overhead of an MPPT charge controller (it'll also use battery power at night), often makes them worthless unless you're using a large battery and a couple of hundred Watts of panels.

For your setup, you'd be better off with a couple of 25 Watt panels, angled to collect the sun's energy throughout the days. 10W panels aren't really up to the job, especially in low sun conditions over the winter.

Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Nodge68 said:
The bushes aren't commercially available, but the complete track rods aren't that expensive. I have made up some Polyurethane bushes in the past, which did the trick.



A 10 Watt rated solar panel, will make 10 Watts. However the full wattage will only be obtained if:

A: the sun energy is at strength of 1000W per square metre (Only available around peak summer in the UK).
B: the panel voltage is at it VMPP (Maximum Power Point Voltage), which is normally around 18 Volts for a 12 Volt panel.
C: the panel current is at the IMPP (Maximum Power Point Current), which is just a bit lower than the short circuit current, probably around 0.55A in this instance.
Both these ratings are normally on the panel's label.

If you are using a PWM charge controller, then the panel voltage will be pulled down to the battery voltage, which reduces the panel wattage as a result.

If you take the VMPP of 18V and multiply it by 0.55A, then you'll see a Maximum output of around 10W, remember this is in full summer sun, and panel alignment spot on. A few degrees off axis will reduce the power output markedly.

Now look at what happens with the panel at NBV (Nominal Battery Voltage), of 12.6V.
The panel voltage is now 12.6V multiplied by the same 0.55A, you'll see the output is now 6.93W, again full summer sun, perfectly on axis, so the power available is much less than the panels true rating.

There are 2 methods to get round this derating issue.
The 1st is to over panel the setup, and my preferred method to maintain a decent level of charge. If this is used in combination with a low energy charge controller (the PWM5 is my preferred one), then you should be able to keep the battery charging all year round.

The second and not my preference on low power solar is to use an MPPT charge controller, which should extract more energy from the panel, however on low power systems, the operating overhead of an MPPT charge controller (it'll also use battery power at night), often makes them worthless unless you're using a large battery and a couple of hundred Watts of panels.

For your setup, you'd be better off with a couple of 25 Watt panels, angled to collect the sun's energy throughout the days. 10W panels aren't really up to the job, especially in low sun conditions over the winter.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Many thanks Nodge! That does, indeed, seem to be exactly what is happening. I have a couple of these:

Amazon product

which have built-in charge controllers, but on the brightest day we've had, angled to the sun at mid-day, they do seem to have a no-load voltage around 18. They have built-in regulators, but not sure what sort. They CLAIM not to use any at night. Not really sure though. We currently have one facing South and the other facing West. (Too many trees to the East). I've been monitoring voltage and current, this last week. So far, the battery is holing up (JUST) but these last few overcast days they have barely managed to keep up with demand and it's not Winter yet. Best current I've seen going into the battery has been 350mA. Most of the time though, they can't even keep pace with the drain. He's going to see if there are ways he can make the Arduino "sleep" for a number of hours after opening or closing. I might have to resort to running an extension lead and charger out there!

I've got some piccies of it now though:

20200922_183708.jpg


20200922_183708.jpg
20200922_183803.jpg


And a few videos...









https://youtu.be/zqChBVj28xc


Oh, and Freelander passed its MOT yesterday, so whatever was knocking can knock for a bit longer! Was pleased with emissions though. Passed by the skin of its teeth last year, but 0.99 /m was the average this year!
 
Avocet1 said:
Many thanks Nodge! That does, indeed, seem to be exactly what is happening. I have a couple of these:

Amazon product

which have built-in charge controllers, but on the brightest day we've had, angled to the sun at mid-day, they do seem to have a no-load voltage around 18. They have built-in regulators, but not sure what sort. They CLAIM not to use any at night. Not really sure though. We currently have one facing South and the other facing West. (Too many trees to the East). I've been monitoring voltage and current, this last week. So far, the battery is holing up (JUST) but these last few overcast days they have barely managed to keep up with demand and it's not Winter yet. Best current I've seen going into the battery has been 350mA. Most of the time though, they can't even keep pace with the drain. He's going to see if there are ways he can make the Arduino "sleep" for a number of hours after opening or closing. I might have to resort to running an extension lead and charger out there!

I've got some piccies of it now though:

View attachment 219907

View attachment 219907 View attachment 219909

And a few videos...









https://youtu.be/zqChBVj28xc


Oh, and Freelander passed its MOT yesterday, so whatever was knocking can knock for a bit longer! Was pleased with emissions though. Passed by the skin of its teeth last year, but 0.99 /m was the average this year!
Click to expand...

What a brilliant project. With just a few tweaks you can make it decapitate the chickens too but how you gonna automate the plucking and cleaning out? :p
 
Loving the chicken house stuff on here, but I have a slightly back on topis question. I'll be changing my track rods and ends this week. Any tips for popping the ends out without a splitter? Will they come out readily?
 
kernowsvenski said:
Loving the chicken house stuff on here, but I have a slightly back on topis question. I'll be changing my track rods and ends this week. Any tips for popping the ends out without a splitter? Will they come out readily?
Click to expand...
hit the eye they sit very hard with a decent size hammer and they will pop out
 
I just unbolt the track rod nut and push the ball joint taper free with a stout bar, lifted on a trolley jack. Splits the joint in seconds, without all the hammering and noise. ;)
 
Nodge68 said:
I just unbolt the track rod nut and push the ball joint taper free with a stout bar, lifted on a trolley jack. Splits the joint in seconds, without all the hammering and noise. ;)
Click to expand...
ok if you dont want to refit the joint, but a lot of strain on the joint if you do
 
jamesmartin said:
ok if you dont want to refit the joint, but a lot of strain on the joint if you do
Click to expand...
I wouldn't have thought there would be any strain on the joint by doing that, but a risk of chewing the treads on the end of the stud. Presumably he runs the nut on loose before doing that? I'd be more worried about bending the steering arm than anything else. They're not designed to be loaded vertically! I prefer the "two hammers" idea.
 
Avocet1 said:
I wouldn't have thought there would be any strain on the joint by doing that, but a risk of chewing the treads on the end of the stud. Presumably he runs the nut on loose before doing that? I'd be more worried about bending the steering arm than anything else. They're not designed to be loaded vertically! I prefer the "two hammers" idea.
Click to expand...
if your pulling up on the joint like with a splitter fork theres a lot of pressure on the joint socket,as your not puling on the taper direct but the joints socket which is not hardened steel but plastic,if you hit in direction down the arm it cant bend,but wont anyhow the two hammers helps there to give a more solid hit thus stretching the joint not the arm springing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
Disco 2 steering wheel is centralized
Replies
1
Views
502
discool
discool
andrewfisher
Frelander 2 - play in Inner Tie Rod (nearside)
Replies
4
Views
1K
andrewfisher
andrewfisher
Z
Steering Rack Refitted Causes Issues
Replies
12
Views
2K
zimaria
Z
Spong
Disco 2 Track rod end nuts
2
Replies
25
Views
2K
Spong
Spong
pwood999
Freelander 1 Faint scraping noise when turning left slowly
Replies
9
Views
1K
Dippypud
Dippypud
Back
Top