torque converter noise

Hi, new member but been looking for a while.
I have a 2003 4.4 bmw engine v8 and the torque converter is droning, will this mean both that and the gearbox will need replacing? I have had no lights or codes come up on the dash in the three months I have owned it; bought it with the noise at an auction and detective work on forum suggested TC.
The 'check coolant' flashes up sometimes I don't know if these are connected. Hopefully just a new converter needed?!!
Many thanks if anyone can shed some light
Koz

Droning would be more diff related I would have thought...

The main telltale with the Torque Convertor is a 'cattle grid' type vibration feeling when on light acceleration around 30-50mph and more evident on a slight incline.

This can be accompanied by the rpm needle wavering around 100-200rpm up and down as the TQ lock up clutch tries to limit TQ slippage.

I would suggest two things to do/check initially -

First is to see if it has had the Front Diff recall work done: this involved putting a flexible UJ type joint on the propshaft where it enters the front diff, the original was a straight coupling and if the shaft and diff weren't lined up, it would cause the diff to fail!

Original:


Recall:


Second thing would be drain the gearbox oil and change the filter, this will allow you to see the condition of the oil and if there are any large debris in the box which would suggest TQ failing...

Don't remember cattle grid feeling but definitely a drone that goes on and off although the needle sometimes fluctuates one thousand revs or so when 50ish.
Will any dealer be able to tell me over the phone regarding the dif replacement?

Hi Kozzi

Get your head under the car and have a look, it has got to look like the bottom picture.
If i doesent look like this you need to ring customer relations and get it booked in,this recall ended in 2010 but i had mine done 2 weeks ago,i also told them that i have just changed from a p38 so there was a bit of loyalty there plus you must have a LRFSH but i did so no probs.
Good look

Cheers Kaz

Hi Kaz, rear dif looks like bottom picture but front one doesn't - looks like top picture.
Called LR in Ipswich and they told me no out standing campaigns on this car!!! couldn't tell me if it had been done. Do not have FLRSH so wont get any good will I don't think
I still think it is the TC lock up clutch wearing away???

Kozzi,

If it hasent been done you need to do it anyway, i got the number for you 01926 691580 and his name is John lake this number is a direct line to him and he dealt with the whole process but i had to book it in for an inspection at Northampton, the way i looked at it is it was there problem so they can sort it!!! IMO it is a safty issue.

Cheers Kaz

Never heard a torque convertor drone.

Datatek said:

Never heard a torque convertor drone.

Click to expand...

Me neither....

As saint says, light and constant throttle up a slight gradient letting it change up through box, mine was worse when revs dropped as it changed into 4th I think, rev counter would move in time with the hum ,after about 56 mph the LUC should be locked I believe, you can check if you let the throttle off at about 56 mph and if the revs drop significantly it ain't locked

I had TC reconditioned and now it's perfect but 'I' did do a couple of extra jobs with a 'bit' of help

Bemble(RRPhil) is god and saint is stood beside him when it comes to transmissions !
Ask me how I know, probably ask anyone how I know !!

You could always try DR trannys rumble fix, we could do with a Guinea pig, there was some discussion on another site about it

Dr. Tranny is excellent stuff. I've just put some in my LR3.

As for the L322, I've just had a second gearbox (TD6) replaced within 3 years. The gearbox's are their weakpoint. It's worth trying the cheaper options first before you shell out £2k or so.

holidaychicken said:

As saint says, light and constant throttle up a slight gradient letting it change up through box, mine was worse when revs dropped as it changed into 4th I think, rev counter would move in time with the hum ,after about 56 mph the LUC should be locked I believe, you can check if you let the throttle off at about 56 mph and if the revs drop significantly it ain't locked

I had TC reconditioned and now it's perfect but 'I' did do a couple of extra jobs with a 'bit' of help

Bemble(RRPhil) is god and saint is stood beside him when it comes to transmissions !
Ask me how I know, probably ask anyone how I know !!

You could always try DR trannys rumble fix, we could do with a Guinea pig, there was some discussion on another site about it

Click to expand...

Nooooo....I am nowhere near standing next to RRPhil (Bemble), everything I post about gearboxes, I have read/learnt from the God and legend that is RRPhil.....I'm not even worthy enough to stir his tea in comparrison!!

But I appreciate your kind comments nonetheless

Hi SaintV8.

You do come highly recommended along with Phil - and you appear to be more active on here than Phil gets time for... so I'm hoping you'll lend me your 'experienced ear' and have a quick look at / listen to - the video youtube link below:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjqqNg-kHJU&feature=youtu.be

Range Rover L322 V8 4.4 Vogue 2003 Model.
73k mileage - with all service stamps.

It's suffering noises from my gearbox (I think) and would really like an experienced ear to have a quick listen and determine if it is transmission issues.

I've been systematically working my way around my engine bay - trying to discover what on earth this noise is... what's broken... and how expensive it's going to be to put right?

Noise: High Pitch Whirring / Grinding / Dry Bearing kind-of sound.

Have replaced alternator / power steering pump / tensioners / belts...
Have removed 'Both' Belts and driven - noise still present (so nothing to do with any of the pulleys on the front of the engine.

Changed all fluids including trans / transfer box / diffs / engine / power steering (all fluids).

It looks like it didn't have the front diff recall - spoke to LR last week & they told me my VIN wasn't effected by this issue???? Hummmm???

Noise only happens when engine cold.
Only happens on take-off in 1st gear and much less in 2nd. By the time I've done 1 mile the noise has gone when I take-off.

I left it running whilst I washed it the other day - 30 mins ticking over before driving off.... no noise. Something isn't happy until it warms up!

Many thanks for any advice.
Mark.

I'm with Saint.V8 with changing the fluid/filter in the box first.

Have you tried putting the gearbox in neutral whilst it's making the noise to deter wether it's actually a gbox/TC related noise ?

Rob

robhew86 said:

I'm with Saint.V8 with changing the fluid/filter in the box first.

Have you tried putting the gearbox in neutral whilst it's making the noise to deter wether it's actually a gbox/TC related noise ?

Rob

Click to expand...

OP mentions he has already changed the fluid in the transmission

Saint.V8 said:

Nooooo....I am nowhere near standing next to RRPhil (Bemble), everything I post about gearboxes, I have read/learnt from the God and legend that is RRPhil.....I'm not even worthy enough to stir his tea in comparrison!!

But I appreciate your kind comments nonetheless

Click to expand...

without getting all biblical on yo ass, isn't it a saints job to carry out the lords work??, phew, that's that out the way

i do believe Phil has, or is selling his range rover, we are all doomed.......

2.0_hippo said:

OP mentions he has already changed the fluid in the transmission

Click to expand...

Sorry missed that ! :doh:

Rob

have you tried low ratio and manual mode to see if any different.?

could it be anything to do with the gearbox oil cooler / thermostat that opens once its warm maybe and is fed from the cooling system

it could be one of many bearings in the box but thought that would probably get worse as it warms up
just in case you fancy stripping it apart..

http://www.jpat.co.uk/92%20ZF%204%205HP24.pdf

changing oil if theres a slow or sporadic shift maybe but noise unless low wouldnt be an idea id have checking plate and converter bolts maybe

Thanks for the input guys.

Yes it does make the noise in low ratio too. It's hard to tell from the video sound - but the noise starts around 2000rpm in 1st and quieter but the same in 2nd. However - load does seem a factor too... if I let the revs creep up slowly the noise is much less aggressive.

Although I haven't had the space or time - when I reverse it does sound like it will reach 'that' nasty noise if I reached the speed / revs as when moving forward.
Besides the noise - there's no issue with gear shift etc ... it's changing smoothly.

Ref: Oil cooler thermostat - how does the hot / cold flow work - how could this cause or contribute to the noise? I recently flushed the gearbox via the 'disconnected oil pipe' method... plenty of 'return-flow' when hot.

Is there any chance this noise is coming from the front diff? It hasn't been upgraded and LR Customer Support said my model / VIN was 'NOT EFFECTED' by the recall... I don't see how this could be so - but has anyone had similar noise as a result of the original faulty diff?
I'm baffled!
Mark.

holidaychicken said:

have you tried low ratio and manual mode to see if any different.?

could it be anything to do with the gearbox oil cooler / thermostat that opens once its warm maybe and is fed from the cooling system

it could be one of many bearings in the box but thought that would probably get worse as it warms up
just in case you fancy stripping it apart..

http://www.jpat.co.uk/92 ZF 4 5HP24.pdf

Click to expand...

sh4dow said:

Hi SaintV8.

You do come highly recommended along with Phil - and you appear to be more active on here than Phil gets time for... so I'm hoping you'll lend me your 'experienced ear' and have a quick look at / listen to - the video youtube link below:

L322 Whiring Grating Noise - YouTube

Range Rover L322 V8 4.4 Vogue 2003 Model.
73k mileage - with all service stamps.

It's suffering noises from my gearbox (I think) and would really like an experienced ear to have a quick listen and determine if it is transmission issues.

I've been systematically working my way around my engine bay - trying to discover what on earth this noise is... what's broken... and how expensive it's going to be to put right?

Noise: High Pitch Whirring / Grinding / Dry Bearing kind-of sound.

Have replaced alternator / power steering pump / tensioners / belts...
Have removed 'Both' Belts and driven - noise still present (so nothing to do with any of the pulleys on the front of the engine.

Changed all fluids including trans / transfer box / diffs / engine / power steering (all fluids).

It looks like it didn't have the front diff recall - spoke to LR last week & they told me my VIN wasn't effected by this issue???? Hummmm???

Noise only happens when engine cold.
Only happens on take-off in 1st gear and much less in 2nd. By the time I've done 1 mile the noise has gone when I take-off.

I left it running whilst I washed it the other day - 30 mins ticking over before driving off.... no noise. Something isn't happy until it warms up!

Many thanks for any advice.
Mark.

Click to expand...

I am no genius - I have had to learn as I can ill afford LR or Indy garage prices, RRPhil is a Legend and as you say he is not here often as he spends a lot of his time going round the forums in turn to spread his Gospel and as such he doesn't spend huge amounts on time of each of them as he tries to get round as many as possible...


He is fairly active on www.rangerovers.net, and there are some great posts from him on Transmissions over there!


You certainly have spent some cash on your L322 changing the fluids, filters, pumps and Alternator!


I am no expert, but your noise does sound very much like gear noise...similar to differential gear noise....


You say you have not had the recall done as your model year was not affected....well I can say it certainly was as mine is a 2003 and mine has had the recall work done to it....


It was only after the jag engines came in around 2005/2006 that the front diff alighnment issue was solved....and the recall work retrofits a similar joint to the BMW version that is fitted to the Jag version....


That being said, I would expect this noise to be present even if the car is warm....the fact it goes does seem to suggest Gearbox, I trust when you changed the fluid, you filled it and leveled it correctly with the box at around 40degC engine running, go through the gears into Park, fill, and go back through the gears and keep filling till it dribbles out the filler hole?!


Torque Convertor issues are cheifly a vibration on light acceleration rather than a noise...but from my untrained ear, it sounds like gear whine....

Lets us know how you get on, but I am fairly sure your vehicle will have/would need to have the Front Diff Recall Work done to it!