Top gear last night

abcdedd · Feb 25, 2013

A good episode as always, and the off road challenge had me glued, The new RR looks pretty classy and i much prefer the new interior to the older one some great improvements..

But then he did a water crossing.. and yeh, that was pretty damn deep for standard build if you ask me, am i wrong?

Was he told just to go for it and not worry if it breaks?
Was he just lucky?

hmmm..

Top Gear - Season 19 Episode 5 (2013.02.24) Part 3 of 5 - YouTube (6:47)

I do appreciate the quality of that video is bad, but when they zoomed out the water hit the windscreen..

Dr_evil · Feb 25, 2013

Check the other tread on the RR from last night

abcdedd · Feb 25, 2013

are you kidddinggg? i thought to myself, this must have been covrred already1! it has to have been.. and yet i didnt see it in their section.. balls to that.

Dr_evil · Feb 25, 2013

In anything goes I think

Grit Valve · Feb 25, 2013

abcdedd said:
A good episode as always, and the off road challenge had me glued, The new RR looks pretty classy and i much prefer the new interior to the older one some great improvements..

But then he did a water crossing.. and yeh, that was pretty damn deep for standard build if you ask me, am i wrong?

Was he told just to go for it and not worry if it breaks?
Was he just lucky?

hmmm..

Top Gear - Season 19 Episode 5 (2013.02.24) Part 3 of 5 - YouTube (6:47)

I do appreciate the quality of that video is bad, but when they zoomed out the water hit the windscreen..

the wading depth has been increased to 36 cm more than a defender and no need for a snookle as long as the water doesn't cover the bonnet but I dought very much that you could submerge it like a defender and drive away without any Reprocutions occurring

Still they can now take the pee out of the Prehistoric defender

martin1512 · Feb 25, 2013

They are all very well, these electronic driver aids, such as terrain response, but they don't really do anything that an experienced and competent off road driver couldn't mangae without having them. My job requires an awful lot of offroad driving, and because of this, I have undertaken a lot of training, and gathered a lot of experience as a result. I now know what my own and my vehicles capabilities are, and how to get the most out of it, without exceeding it's limits. The problem with these devices is that they give control with no responsibility. The untrained and inexperienced driver can hand responsibility for getting them safely about into the hands of the computers, which is fine until the computer stops working. You are then left with an untrained and inexperienced driver, in a situtation over which they have very little knowledge or control. Last nights show was a good example of this. There were times, particularly when driving into and out of the water, that James may was driving like an absolute ####, far too fast and with little control. It was only the onboard computers that prevented him from making a complete tit of himself on TV. These electronic devices are supposed to be used in addition to the drivers skill and experience, not instead of it, as far too many are. Anyway, old fart rant over now, and I love those Oshkosh Vehicles, that Terramax is awesome.

Jongould · Feb 25, 2013

martin1512 said:
They are all very well, these electronic driver aids, such as terrain response, but they don't really do anything that an experienced and competent off road driver couldn't mangae without having them. My job requires an awful lot of offroad driving, and because of this, I have undertaken a lot of training, and gathered a lot of experience as a result. I now know what my own and my vehicles capabilities are, and how to get the most out of it, without exceeding it's limits. The problem with these devices is that they give control with no responsibility. The untrained and inexperienced driver can hand responsibility for getting them safely about into the hands of the computers, which is fine until the computer stops working. You are then left with an untrained and inexperienced driver, in a situtation over which they have very little knowledge or control. Last nights show was a good example of this. There were times, particularly when driving into and out of the water, that James may was driving like an absolute ####, far too fast and with little control. It was only the onboard computers that prevented him from making a complete tit of himself on TV. These electronic devices are supposed to be used in addition to the drivers skill and experience, not instead of it, as far too many are. Anyway, old fart rant over now, and I love those Oshkosh Vehicles, that Terramax is awesome.

I disagree there, I think these driver aids mean that a vehicle with them fitted will perform better than a vehicle without them fitted even with an experienced driver, traction control for example, doesn't matter how good a driver you are a 4x4 with traction control will out perform a traditional center difflock setup, the adjustable suspension will allow for the vehicle to cope better on softer surfaces instead of plowing a wheel in to the ground and getting stuck. Yeah your right they do take some of the skill away but I bet you can get that RR over more extreme terrain then you ever would with a defender providing you were running the same tyres of course, there is a lot of trickery going on and this trickery was devised by people who really know what they are doing when it comes to the physics of it all...

RAGNAR BENSON · Feb 25, 2013

defender300td1 said:
Still they can now take the pee out of the Prehistoric defender

They've been trying to kill off the Defender for years. They have failed. What does that tell you?

Grit Valve · Feb 25, 2013

RAGNAR BENSON said:
They've been trying to kill off the Defender for years. They have failed. What does that tell you?

Hello ranger think they are going to kill it when the new DC comes out , how they can change an iconic shape wonders will never cease

Pikey · Feb 25, 2013

RAGNAR BENSON said:
They've been trying to kill off the Defender for years. They have failed. What does that tell you?

defender300td1 said:
Hello ranger think they are going to kill it when the new DC comes out , how they can change an iconic shape wonders will never cease

Problem is they have to be hand assembled So they make no profit for the company. I suppose thst if they transferred production to India, the cheaper labour costs, might make it feasible and at least the Indian workers would get the panels to line up before they left the factory. instead of throwing em together, as they do at present.

RAGNAR BENSON · Feb 25, 2013

defender300td1 said:
Hello ranger think they are going to kill it when the new DC comes out , how they can change an iconic shape wonders will never cease

I think that's now been binned as a Defender replacement. It met with such a damp reception, that the idea was scrapped. I believe it is now planned as a new model line to be developed and launched in its own right. I think the Defender might just have another stay of execution.

DC100 - the bloody thing both looks and sounds like a Dyson.

Grit Valve · Feb 25, 2013

redhand said:
Problem is they have to be hand assembled So they make no profit for the company. I suppose thst if they transferred production to India, the cheaper labour costs, might make it feasible and at least the Indian workers would get the panels to line up before they left the factory. instead of throwing em together, as they do at present.

Red dont they use robots for most of it now ??

Grit Valve · Feb 25, 2013

RAGNAR BENSON said:
I think that's now been binned as a Defender replacement. It met with such a damp reception, that the idea was scrapped. I believe it is now planned as a new model line to be developed and launched in its own right. I think the Defender might just have another stay of execution.

DC100 - the bloody thing both looks and sounds like a Dyson.

We will see

CountJimmy · Feb 25, 2013

I think the main issue with the defender is that they can't viably make it meet new safety regs. Think they're having to reclassify it as a truck to stretch it out a few years longer. It's been switched between passenger vehicle and truck a few times I think. Sarah

martin1512 · Feb 25, 2013

Jongould said:
I disagree there, I think these driver aids mean that a vehicle with them fitted will perform better than a vehicle without them fitted even with an experienced driver, traction control for example, doesn't matter how good a driver you are a 4x4 with traction control will out perform a traditional center difflock setup, the adjustable suspension will allow for the vehicle to cope better on softer surfaces instead of plowing a wheel in to the ground and getting stuck. Yeah your right they do take some of the skill away but I bet you can get that RR over more extreme terrain then you ever would with a defender providing you were running the same tyres of course, there is a lot of trickery going on and this trickery was devised by people who really know what they are doing when it comes to the physics of it all...

It simply boils down to how much traction you have and how much ground clearance you have. Run out of either, and you are stuck. Traction control can help a ham-fisted driver by doing what their right foot should be doing, manipulating the throttle and brakes to maximise the ammount of grip available without spinning the wheels. Something you can do with the throttle & brake pedal. Adjustable suspension, contrary to popular belief, cannot neccessarily increase ground clearance, as all it does is raise and lower the body, and unless you have seriously screwed up, you body work is not the lowest point of your car, your axles and diff casing are, and this clearance can only be improved by fitting bigger tyres. The advantage of adjustable suspension however, is that it can lower the vehicles COG, increasing stability when on road cornering and tackling side slopes. It makes no difference when crossing soft ground though, as how far a vehicle sinks is dependant on it's ammount of ground pressure, and traction. Something that adjustable suspension can have very little effect over.

Jongould · Feb 26, 2013

martin1512 said:
It simply boils down to how much traction you have and how much ground clearance you have. Run out of either, and you are stuck. Traction control can help a ham-fisted driver by doing what their right foot should be doing, manipulating the throttle and brakes to maximise the ammount of grip available without spinning the wheels. Something you can do with the throttle & brake pedal. Adjustable suspension, contrary to popular belief, cannot neccessarily increase ground clearance, as all it does is raise and lower the body, and unless you have seriously screwed up, you body work is not the lowest point of your car, your axles and diff casing are, and this clearance can only be improved by fitting bigger tyres. The advantage of adjustable suspension however, is that it can lower the vehicles COG, increasing stability when on road cornering and tackling side slopes. It makes no difference when crossing soft ground though, as how far a vehicle sinks is dependant on it's ammount of ground pressure, and traction. Something that adjustable suspension can have very little effect over.

You seem to have forgotten a few things here. For starters the RR doesnt have solid axles but instead fully independent suspension so adjustable suspension does actually increase ground clearance, not only that but the computers have enough computing and sensing ability that it can not only adjust the amount of power given to each wheel but also the weight distribution and CoG between the 4 wheels. No amount of throttle/brake control can match the traction gained by a TC system unless you had difflocks all round and even then you cant control the slip without either putting less power to a grippy wheel or spinning the slipping one, TC gives maximum power to every wheel. I would also expect there are quite a few other ways the vehicle can change its dynamic setup inorder to gain advantage in tough terrain but I am not a Land Rover R&D expert and simply do not understand the indepth physics of the situation. There is no way to argue against it, electronic aids are benificial and will give even a seasoned expert a good level of assistance allowing them to traverse otherwise impassable ground. You will still be able to do 95% of the same stuff but then I can do 95% of the same stuff a defender can do in a free lander, its an evolution of the same principles, first we had 2x4, then 4x4, then we had diff locks, then came along TC, now there are more and more extras that each bring their own little something to the party...

Top gear last night

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