Too high mileage to tune and if not what's the best option.

hi there

First post. Have tried having a look around the forum so apologies if I'm asking an old question.

I have a 54 plate 90 TD5 that I inherited from my dad. It is the 8th in a long line of land rovers we have had ranging from ( I think) a series 2, 2.25 petrol 88, a series 2 88inch diesel, a series 3 108 inch diesel, a series 1 Range Rover v8, a v8 110 hi cap pickup converted to a 3 litre Perkins TD, a 90 200TDI, a 90 300TDI and now old Betsy.

She would have been changed years back but the problem was that both dad and I were too tall to fit in the later models after the TD5 with the bigger dash and she has ended up getting kept a lot lot longer than intended. Dad passed away this year and I had to put up with a series of breakdowns when I inherited her :- new starter, new alternator, new lift pump (3rd one it's had since new) wheel bearings all round and new brakes on the front. Which may sound a lot but if you had done 185,000 miles running between farms and doing some pretty brutal off road work I think you would have a few issues. While I am quite mechanical due to time issues I have found a really good specialist to go to and he has done a really great job.

She is now running pretty well and I have decided to keep her even though it was a close run thing at times, especially when she had to be towed to the garage 4 times in less than 2 months by a selection of hi-lux's and other pick ups. The fact that she seems to have turned into an appreciating asset is also making me keen to keep her.

Body has some dents and sacrificial corrosion (that can be sorted), chassis is rusted (mostly at the back) but I think it can be saved with the right treatment or if worst case scenario I can weld a new half chassis on (can't afford to fit a galvanised chassis at the moment) and as for the engine it seems to be running pretty well, uses no oil beyond the usual Landrover sweating from below that goes on and both it and the gearbox have been completely untouched since new.

I already have a fast car (focus RS) so I'm not looking for a flying machine but I would like more power and low down grunt for towing, off road work and the ability to cruise around in 5th without changing gear when I get to a hill. I am thinking of doing the following.

1. Remove EGR valve and clean out intake manifold, the idea of adding hot exhaust gases into the inlet manifold seems nuts to me. I seem to have an EU3 engine with the cooler so I will leave it in place and blank everything off.

2. De-cat the exhaust and fit a performance filter to help her breathe more easily.

3. Do a sensible ECU remap that will liven her up a bit to give more torque and low down grunt and perhaps help fuel consumption when cruising.

The question is, is she at 185,000 miles getting on a bit to give her a tune up? I know a bit about diesel tuning as I have tuned a golf diesel and turned it into an R32 killer and had no problems but I am concerned that a remap that would up turbo boost may push her a bit and lead to other problems given her age.

I have been told by a LR specialist that the TD5 engine should be good for 300,000 miles before it needs a recon but when I look about in the internet I am struggling to find other TD5's with mileages around mine. They way I'm thinking at the moment I can see me keeping her for a long time if she continues to behave so I'm not averse to a recon at some point and I trust the specialist I use to do a really good job.

Now if she isn't too old to tune any helpful advice on what to do would be appreciated.

Hi There,

Welcome to the Loonyzone.

Ref the remap, as long as you go to one of the reputable suppliers I do not see an issue. Mike at Dynachip gave mine a quick once over when he did it to double check things were working correctly.

Cheers

Welcome aboard - nice intro / question, but NO pictures !!!! How very dare you

I think keeping it long term is the answer, and I think Neilly answered your question in the post above - get someone reputable to do it - like Mike at Dynachip, who has a reputation to protect...

+1 on all that.

180k isnt much for a TD5 they will run happy till 300k, personally seen on running like a dream at 500k!

Dont bother with a perfomance filter, you wont be tuning it enough to warrant one, stick with paper.

Allisport have a sale on atm for Bullet back boxes, breaths easier, sounds better but not as loud as a straight thru.

500,000 miles! Seems the old girl might have a bit of life in her yet.

Will probably still do the filter as I have some pipercross filter oil left over from a previous car that had one of those filters fitted. So might as well use it.

EGR seems pretty simple to do but some of the kits are a bit vague about what to do with the small pipes you disconnect off the valve when you remove it. Some mention one pipe to be stopped up, some mention two and some don't mention them. Some kits also contain something to blank these pipes off and others don't bother!

Will check out the offer on these exhausts. They seem to to be stainless steel and Betsy ain't that flash so mild steel will do if cheaper. If a decat and straight pipe to the back ain't too loud then maybe that's the answer. Thou looks like I need a pipe with a fake cat in it for MOT purposes. My Focus RS is also a 5 cylinder and pops and howls like a mad one so maybe a 5cyl diesel can have a nice note to it as well. Might also drown out some of the road noise and general rattles from Betsy!

Like the look of dynachip. Wee bit far away but they say they come to you and the price looks right. Think the garage I use uses Alive remaps. Any opinion on then compared to dynachip? Not sure what he charges for a remap.

If I can find a cheap larger intercooler I may just go the whole hog and go for even more power. If I keep her to about 190bhp will she still be ok? My thinking is that the larger intercooler will lower temps in the engine so maybe even reduce the stress on the engine? Plus foot will not be welded to floor permanently when pulling a heavy trailer or trying to get up a steep banking. I'm not bothered about hammering along at 100mph as I've got the RS for that.

Oh and here she is in all her glory. You can see she's a working girl and not one of these poncy fillies that cost about £50k.

Point is the performance filters can wreck MAF sensors and they dont filter enough which will cause rough running and poor MPG. Only really need one if youre running high boost or very highly tuned.

Britpart do decent ICs which are rebranded Serck intercoolers, had one in my 90 for about 18months running 20psi of boost with no issues.

Just pull the whole EGR system inc the cooler off, I made a thread about it a few weeks ago. Blank of the coolant pipes with a metal stud (i used an old caliper bolt and a jubille clip).

The stainless mid box is £70 i think! Same price as a mild steel straight thru. It is loud fine around town but on the Mway it can be a little much is all. As for MOT my 90 passed 4 years in a row at 3 different garages with no issue on the CAT/DPF missing.

Paddocks do a decent mild steel decat pipe for about £55.

Oh right. I ran a pipercross in a 350z for years and I had no bother at all. It did defo have a benefit when matched with a sports exhaust. If I need to get more air in is there a type of filter that is better or is the standard filter enough for doing 190bhp? I have seen itg(?) filters mentioned.

Is it easy to find your guide? Does leaving the cooler on actually cause any issues as would it not just act like a small extra radiator?

It was more the pipes that go from the valve and seem to have something to do with the brake servo system(?). Like I say some kits mention them and include little plugs and some don't even bother.

Ta for the tip re britpart intercoolers. Will check them out.

FYI,

here is the link to @bankz5152 post on egr blanking.........there are also posts to a few links regarding the blanking.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/td5-egr-removal-question.307222/page-2#post-3855709
Cheers

Performance filters are a bit like snake oil IMHO, but, clearly, your call. TD5 is a good engine, and appears to tolerate all manner of tuning, without spitting its dummy out - and there is plenty of experience out there in terms of what works and what doesn't.

I suggest that a gearbox cooler will be a worthwhile addition at those power levels, especially when towing... and... depending on vehicle spec, and which gear box.. you might be "lucky" and have one fitted already - the ROW spec had them, but 99% of the UK spec ones don't....

neilly said:

FYI,

here is the link to @bankz5152 post on egr blanking.........there are also posts to a few links regarding the blanking.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/td5-egr-removal-question.307222/page-2#post-3855709
Cheers

Click to expand...

Cheers! On my phone hard to post links!

I have just walked in the door from blanking my EGR on my Td5 disco, the same type as yourself with the cooler business, i bought the kit for 28 quid on ebay, and the seller even put some sweets in the package for me it was a good kit, and included 2 small plastic plugs for the pipes you're talking about. It had all new bolts and washers, absolutely everything you needed. I couldve spent just 20quid for the same kit but with only 1 blank, but i wanted to do it properly so blanked the extra pipe too with the 2nd and 3rd in the £28 kit instead. Hope that makes any sense just fired it up and took it for a quick spin and it definately was smoother, a teeny pit pokier down low, i could hear the turbo better and it generally sounded and felt healthier all round sure it will be even nicer at higher speeds, and i could tell that with a remap (im also looking at dynachip in the future), it would really allow the map to open it up for driveability, power and efficiency and a happy injun! love the thread you're in a similar position to me

Here's the link to the EGR kit that ive just finished fitting, the 1 plate version is from the same seller for £19.99 but i recommended this one...
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122182179000




I've recently been 'froadin in a quarry excuse the messy bay
You'll see those pipes up by the dipstick, but i cable tied them to the new stainless pipe after taking the pic

to squeeze allot more power have you considered running duel fuel by spraying in some LPG and still manage to save on fuel economy

as for the EGR
kits on ebay are fairly cheep and they look better and cleaner.. you can make your own blanking plate and leave every thing else in place
most people block off there EGR but forget about the inlet manifold being coked up
mine has been deleted for some time so I cant find any photos of my inlet manifold but I found an old vid

intake ports were 40 % smaller due to the EGR had coked up and reduced the size of my inlet ports

so when doing an EGR delete its allways best to remove the intake manifold and do this

Yeah thats worth noting actually. Im going to pull my inlet off sometime next week. Give it a soak in Mr Muscle oven cleaner for a couple hours, then a jetwash.

bankz5152 said:

Point is the performance filters can wreck MAF sensors and they dont filter enough which will cause rough running and poor MPG

Click to expand...

That theory has no scientific nor technical backup... as long as the filter is properly serviced and not overfilled with oil it's harmless and improves boost and reduces turbo lag due to the fact that the drop in the AAP reading under load becomes neglectable which means the ECU doesnt have to compensate for the MAP and that's good for the consumption and EGT , it won't ruin the MAF, it can reduce it's readings if it was overoiled but simply cleaning the MAF with dedicated cleaner restores it's output, the difference in the filtered particles dimensions is irrelevant cos at that level any particle is instantly disintegrated in the combustion... i've made serious research on this but it's not the subject of this thread to keep a long theory...in a nutshell, if you have one take care how you service it, clean the MAF more often and keep it cos it's good IMO

ozzyboydeano said:

intake ports were 40 % smaller due to the EGR had coked up and reduced the size of my inlet ports

Click to expand...

It's such a good design ....... NOT!

deffo clean the plenum/inlet manifold ... I did them in the dishwasher whilst SWMBO was at work - but ... keep that to yourself, cos if she finds out, she'll be mad !!

RyanDay1 said:

I have just walked in the door from blanking my EGR on my Td5 disco, the same type as yourself with the cooler business, i bought the kit for 28 quid on ebay, and the seller even put some sweets in the package for me it was a good kit, and included 2 small plastic plugs for the pipes you're talking about. It had all new bolts and washers, absolutely everything you needed. I couldve spent just 20quid for the same kit but with only 1 blank, but i wanted to do it properly so blanked the extra pipe too with the 2nd and 3rd in the £28 kit instead. Hope that makes any sense just fired it up and took it for a quick spin and it definately was smoother, a teeny pit pokier down low, i could hear the turbo better and it generally sounded and felt healthier all round sure it will be even nicer and higher speeds, and i could tell that with a remap (im also looking at dynachip in the future), it would really allow the map to open it up for driveability, power and efficiency and a happy injun! love the thread you're in a similar position to me

Here's the link to the EGR kit that ive just finished fitting, the 1 plate version is from the same seller for £19.99 but i recommended this one...
Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/122182179000

View attachment 110972
View attachment 110973

Click to expand...

So you just left the cooler on?

Farmer Brown said:

So you just left the cooler on?

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Yeah ive not seen it done with that bit off, thats why the kit has 3 blank plates instead of just 1, because the coolers still sat there, i imagine youd have to re-plumb the whole lot to bypass the cooler if you wanted to get rid of it, i saw no need at all to get rid of it, and itd be rough to have to fit it all again once youd taken that cooler out i imagine, if you ever needed to... thats the way every instruction ive read says to do it, its very straight forward but Alive Tuning has instructions with their kit, and it says the same thing, with 3 blank plates like mine

You can see the plate on it at exhaust end here

And see it sitting happy as larry here, i assume you have to blank it off so that you dont allow crap into it and other things despite it not being used!

RyanDay1 said:

Yeah ive not seen it done with that bit off, thats why the kit has 3 blank plates instead of just 1, because the coolers still sat there, i imagine youd have to re-plumb the whole lot to bypass the cooler if you wanted to get rid of it, i saw no need at all to get rid of it, and itd be rough to have to fit it all again once youd taken that cooler out i imagine, if you ever needed to... thats the way every instruction ive read says to do it, its very straight forward but Alive Tuning has instructions with their kit, and it says the same thing, with 3 blank plates like mine
View attachment 111010
You can see the plate on it at exhaust end here
View attachment 111011
And see it sitting happy as larry here, i assume you have to blank it off so that you dont allow crap into it and other things despite it not being used!

Click to expand...

Thanks, that seems the simplest way to do it to me as you don't need to mess about with the cooler plumbing.

Will take the blow torch to the inside of the manifold as well to clean it out. Anyone know off the top of their heads what the torque setting are for the manifold bolts?

Hello, welcome, nice write up.
If you do remove the EGR, worth keeping the bits, there was chat before about changes to the MOT requiring emissions control gear to be fitted.
With the growing anti diesel sentiment, it may be in the future an MOT could include actual exhaust composition testing, rather than the simple smoke test, BUT that just my opinion!
Mine has EGR unplugged, no centre silencer box or CAT, just passed its MOT no probs!
For deep cleaning bits I use barbecue cleaning spray, but only leave on for 15-20 SECONDS, its pretty effective but loves to eat aluminium.
Mark
PS Mine has done 192K miles, apart from a rebuild last year to change a piston and bearings, its not been rebored, still going very well. Top tip: Check your oil level at least weekly!

Farmer Brown said:

Thanks, that seems the simplest way to do it to me as you don't need to mess about with the cooler plumbing.

Will take the blow torch to the inside of the manifold as well to clean it out. Anyone know off the top of their heads what the torque setting are for the manifold bolts?

Click to expand...

Seen a vid of the same thing being done but he only uses the torch to heat it up, then switches to just using compressed air into it and it burns itself silly, looks like a jet engine blowing out of each port! Quick youtube search for how to clean out an intake manifold I'm sure its the first one that comes up!