P38A Timing chain and FIP

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BigAd

Active Member
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72
Location
Leeds
My 2.5 p38 struggles to start since an engine swap, my original diesel pump was used in the new engine.
I'm wondering if the new engine has a worn timing chain or if my FIP is shot. The garage that timed it said they had to time the pump differently so it would idle better, but struggles to start from any temp, especially cold.
Is it worth getting the chain done at the same time as the FIP?
 
The slack from worn chains would be taken out in order to time it properly, sound like things are not quite right and the timing is out, as if everything is set right locked up in the correct place and done properly it should run,
wonder if the got the crank locking pin stuck on a timing pin.
 
Have you got hotstart fix fitted?

Glows are the easy check. MAP pipe etc. Earth points so starter spins fast. Then I think put it back to where the timing should be and see how it runs with diag.
 
Any idea on the mileage of pump on old engine/chains on the new?
You can adjust the pump to the point worn chain will jump a cog so somethings not right.

Ideally you would check modulation when hot & cold on a diagnostic to identify stretched chains. If your FIP is shot you will get mil lamp lit up like a Xmas tree.
 
BigAd said:
My 2.5 p38 struggles to start since an engine swap, my original diesel pump was used in the new engine.
I'm wondering if the new engine has a worn timing chain or if my FIP is shot. The garage that timed it said they had to time the pump differently so it would idle better, but struggles to start from any temp, especially cold.
Is it worth getting the chain done at the same time as the FIP?
Click to expand...
Your garage is talking bullshit providing all else is ok timing cannot effect idle.
 
I agree with Tony. The idle is a separate issue. Find another garage who has experience with this engine and or these fuel pumps. What mileage was on your old engine?
What mileage is in the replacement engine and are they the timing chains that came with it.
 
When static timing is set it is set slightly advanced to assist starting. With the engine running it is adjusted automatically to TDC via signal from injector 4 and operation of modulator valve. At idle point of injection will be within 1 or 2 degrees before TDC. So where the static is set cannot influence idle. But it can effect starting if set retarded.
 
wammers said:
When static timing is set it is set slightly advanced to assist starting. With the engine running it is adjusted automatically to TDC via signal from injector 4 and operation of modulator valve. At idle point of injection will be within 1 or 2 degrees before TDC. So where the static is set cannot influence idle. But it can effect starting if set retarded.
Click to expand...

Starting is the issue!
 
BigAd, there's a post a few pages back called 'Hot Start Fix' where there is a bit of discussion about this.
I had starting problems too. I am no great mechanic but was able to do the static timing.
This was my post after it was done. It took all day but think about having a go yourself... Good luck!

'Morning All,
eventually got round to doing the static timing, as suggested, and according to RAVE.
What an amazing difference! One of the best jobs I have done for immediate gratifying results.
Cold start still perfect, tickover now smooth and at 850rpm (after initial warming up) and hot start is on the button too.
Fuel consumption (on a 200 mile trip) is back to 24.5mpg and it runs beautifully. It also seems to change up gears sooner (torque improved?)
Not an easy job for someone with my limited abilities, but obviously it was overdue and needed to be done.
I wouldn't have been confident enough to do it without the good advice and encouragement from you guys, so thanks.

After initially thinking it was going to cost hundreds for the tools, in the end all I had to buy was the adaptor (above post) for 7.99.
Mind it took me all day... and two attempts to get it right!
Modulation now at 49.8%. I guess that is close enough.
Buys me some time, now I can plan doing the timing chain next summer...
Thanks again
Simple pleasures in these difficult days
 
He described it to me as the engine wouldnt idle correctly if it was timed to the manufacturers spec, so he timed it slightly differently so it would idle smooth and runs spot on when started, but no matter the temperature it takes a lot of cranking the engine and I have to press the accelerator to help start up.
 
The engine in it as 160k miles so the chain has the same.
My FIP is off the original car so will have around 110k
 
BigAd said:
He described it to me as the engine wouldnt idle correctly if it was timed to the manufacturers spec, so he timed it slightly differently so it would idle smooth and runs spot on when started, but no matter the temperature it takes a lot of cranking the engine and I have to press the accelerator to help start up.
Click to expand...

I have already explained he it talking rubbish, static timing has nothing to do with idle. Its about time you started listening. Believe me I really do know what I am talking about your mechanic is an idiot.
 
Still doesnt answer if it's a ****ed FIP or stretched timing chain. I couldnt care less if my mechanic has an IQ of 4. There must be a reason it wouldnt run on the correct timing. I'm just trying to diagnose the issue
 
My sons P38 2.5tdi wouldn't start properly hot or cold when we bought it. The time it took to crank it was ages. The pump was out of time by a country mile. The previous owner said I just bash the pedal down and it eventually starts... I timed it up to 49% modulation with the nanocom and it starts every time hot or cold. He also replaced the glow plugs albeit with shïte ones...
You can remove the pump and have it checked at a specialist they can then confirm its condition and then you can go from there. If you doubt it, test it. Your mechanic shouldn't have to do anything other than the correct procedure to get it right. If you doubt the chains and sprockets then change them. It is your choice and your hard earned but if procédures aren't checked and followed pockets will emptied. I hope they can help you. ;)
 
BigAd said:
Still doesnt answer if it's a ****ed FIP or stretched timing chain. I couldnt care less if my mechanic has an IQ of 4. There must be a reason it wouldnt run on the correct timing. I'm just trying to diagnose the issue
Click to expand...

Ok carry on you obviously know best. There is a reason it would not run with correct static, I know what that is, but will leave you to find out for yourself. If you don't want expert help I am not going to push it on you.
 
BigAd said:
He described it to me as the engine wouldnt idle correctly if it was timed to the manufacturers spec, so he timed it slightly differently so it would idle smooth and runs spot on when started, but no matter the temperature it takes a lot of cranking the engine and I have to press the accelerator to help start up.
Click to expand...

If it is struggling to start cold I would check the glowplugs are actually working properly. There's a big fuse in the engine ECU box.

As for the FIP. First port of call is always to set the static as per RAVE, otherwise you're introducing another variable. Mine's done over 160k miles on original chains and is timed as per RAVE. It barely cranks before it fires. I replaced my FIP with a refurbed one but I cannot remember when. Somewhere between 120k or 140k miles.

Doesn't mean yours is going to be the same, of course. But I suspect yours will be similar.
 
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