TD5 Piston Rings

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tom1979

tom1979

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A few months ago I picked up a nice low mileage 2003 D2 Manual 15P. The garage I got it from couldn’t get to the bottom of the poor running and tried all sorts of things including putting a brand new turbo on it (hasn’t even changed colour yet!) however on closer inspection I found the injector socket on No.1 was cracked and also the tip of the injector in No.1 was long gone.

So I stripped the head off tonight to find one of the pistons is wearing away. That explains the poor running! And possibly where the injector tip went.

Piston number is LFL000450.

I have a 10P bottom end stripped out for another project. My plan is to get a used LFL000450 piston and put that the other 4 LFL000450 pistons in my spare bottom end with new bearings/rings etc, but I cannot find piston rings for those pistons!

the spare bottom end I have the pistons were ERR7097 and Turners insisted you cannot get the rings for those ones and that I would have to buy 5 new pistons from them. I don’t really want a repeat of that situation.

Basically are all these parts interchangeable and does anyone know where I can get rings for these LFL000450 pistons?

cheers
(pic attached for entertainment)
B9635E12-64FE-4D38-8D62-E825B89F4BBA.jpeg
 
That piston looks like it has taken some hammer, almost like there was something in the cylinder, how are the bores?
I have 4 sets of new rings I bought some time ago to rebuild my p15 TD5 engine, I didn't use them, they are Kolbenschmidt ones but I dont know the part number, I can check this weekend
 
raywin said:
That piston looks like it has taken some hammer, almost like there was something in the cylinder, how are the bores?
I have 4 sets of new rings I bought some time ago to rebuild my p15 TD5 engine, I didn't use them, they are Kolbenschmidt ones but I dont know the part number, I can check this weekend
Click to expand...

i suspect the injector tip made its way there! The bores don’t look too bad but I’m going to scrap that engine now and try and make one out of two. From what turners said before the early pistons you can’t get rings for but the later ones they are interchangeable but I need to go back through emails to check
 
tom1979 said:
i suspect the injector tip made its way there! The bores don’t look too bad but I’m going to scrap that engine now and try and make one out of two. From what turners said before the early pistons you can’t get rings for but the later ones they are interchangeable but I need to go back through emails to check
Click to expand...
I can't help with the question of the rings needed, but I will get the PN of the ones I have see if it's any help, I think I also have a piston con rod assembly, but again I am not sure what the part is from.
 
I remember that the later pistons had an offset bowl. Maybe something to help combustion. As such, you probably shouldn't mix pistons.
These rings at Bearmach say from VIN 2A622424. Does that match your vehicle?
 
tom1979 said:
A few months ago I picked up a nice low mileage 2003 D2 Manual 15P. The garage I got it from couldn’t get to the bottom of the poor running and tried all sorts of things including putting a brand new turbo on it (hasn’t even changed colour yet!) however on closer inspection I found the injector socket on No.1 was cracked and also the tip of the injector in No.1 was long gone.

So I stripped the head off tonight to find one of the pistons is wearing away. That explains the poor running! And possibly where the injector tip went.

Piston number is LFL000450.

I have a 10P bottom end stripped out for another project. My plan is to get a used LFL000450 piston and put that the other 4 LFL000450 pistons in my spare bottom end with new bearings/rings etc, but I cannot find piston rings for those pistons!

the spare bottom end I have the pistons were ERR7097 and Turners insisted you cannot get the rings for those ones and that I would have to buy 5 new pistons from them. I don’t really want a repeat of that situation.

Basically are all these parts interchangeable and does anyone know where I can get rings for these LFL000450 pistons?

cheers
(pic attached for entertainment)
View attachment 195202
Click to expand...
Dont know how this is going, but after much delay I sorted out the rings I have in my garage, dont know if they would be any good for you but I have 4 sets I bought for my rebuild but did not use.
20191211_175918.jpg
20191211_180007.jpg
 
raywin said:
Dont know how this is going, but after much delay I sorted out the rings I have in my garage, dont know if they would be any good for you but I have 4 sets I bought for my rebuild but did not use.
View attachment 196019 View attachment 196020
Click to expand...

thank you raywin, I have opted for a replacement used engine. Worked out cheaper and easier in the end, just going to give it a quick once over for the usual things and pop it in with a new clutch
 
Seems to be the same story as mine. Cracked head and piston damage. The damage was much worse in mine so replacement emgine was the only option. Once my new top hose arrives ity should be all good to go. Time will tell if the replacement enmgine is good. Starts and sounds alright, but smells a bit smoky. Haven't taken it to working temperature yet though.
 
Not exactly a piston/ring question but bottom end none the less...
Looking at buying parts for a bottom end rebuild. I remember seeing con rod bearings and crank bearings sold at different thicknesses on a parts website. Turner seems to sell just one thickness in each. Is this the case? engine is a 2004 16p
 
Also... looking at the crank and con rods im wondering if the bottom end was rebuilt before I purchased.
Bores look in excellent shape..as do pistions. The con rods have hand written numbers and alignment marks between bearing caps and con rod.
Did engines recieve these marking by hand when engines were first assembled or is this a sure a sign of a recent rebuild?
Thanks
 
thanks for that link. Yeah looks like the same factory worker assembled your engine as did mine. Same pen!
Yeah think ill change the bearings now im this far in. What size did you get? Turner say available in STD, 010, 020 undersize. Guessing thats a mm thickness increment...
 
Alistair Davidson said:
thanks for that link. Yeah looks like the same factory worker assembled your engine as did mine. Same pen!
Yeah think ill change the bearings now im this far in. What size did you get? Turner say available in STD, 010, 020 undersize. Guessing thats a mm thickness increment...
Click to expand...
I was thinking that it had been rebuild at some time but as you say the ones I have looked like the picture sent to me, same pen, and same hand by the look.
You are right to change the shells, but you need to measure the crank journals to determine any wear or ovality, I was astonished that mine had so little wear after 120k miles, it was hardly measurable. I used new standard size shells from island 4x4 if you look through the thread you can see them on page 5.
Take care re installing the crank, be sure to centre the main bearing shells, and fit the big end ones carefully, use new bolts as they are stretch bolts.
My bores were pretty much as new also, so I cleaned up the pistons and rings and re installed them.
Done just over 1000 miles since and it seems ok.
 
Now a piston ring question:
I have read the above...but still a little unclear. Rings I buy from turners will fit my 16p pistons..? as sounds like only earlier 10p model pistons have the different rings...?
Any clarification before I drop 125 quid on new rings would be excellent
 
Alistair Davidson said:
Also... looking at the crank and con rods im wondering if the bottom end was rebuilt before I purchased.
Bores look in excellent shape..as do pistions. The con rods have hand written numbers and alignment marks between bearing caps and con rod.
Did engines recieve these marking by hand when engines were first assembled or is this a sure a sign of a recent rebuild?
Thanks
Click to expand...
the numbers are factory done as conrods are bored assembled ,caps cant be fitted to any other conrod,also denotes which way round they fit
 
Alistair Davidson said:
thanks for that link. Yeah looks like the same factory worker assembled your engine as did mine. Same pen!
Yeah think ill change the bearings now im this far in. What size did you get? Turner say available in STD, 010, 020 undersize. Guessing thats a mm thickness increment...
Click to expand...
unless cranks been ground you need std, its very unlikely it has but you measure in any case
 
Alistair Davidson said:
Now a piston ring question:
I have read the above...but still a little unclear. Rings I buy from turners will fit my 16p pistons..? as sounds like only earlier 10p model pistons have the different rings...?
Any clarification before I drop 125 quid on new rings would be excellent
Click to expand...
ring part number changes from 2a onwards to stc4745 so early rings wont be suitable for late engines and vice versa,even though td5 tolerances are far better than earlier engines rings still need gapping in the bores
 
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