TD4 sluggish

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bluegrass said:
Hi everyone, quick question. Can anybody tell me why so many people knock td4's when so many people have one?
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The TD4 (M47R) was forced on LR by BMW. There was no other diesel alternative so the TD4 gets knocked a bit. It's a reasonable engine I suppose, but it does have it's problems. Most are easily, if not cheaply sorted.
The K series petrol engines get knocked much worse than the TD4 and that's not always justified either.
 
The TD4 (M47R) was forced on LR by BMW.
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looks like the Teutons came up with first cr.diesel ..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail
only looked that up 'cause i thought the germans had put the 1st one into production ..
wuz obviously wrong :- ..

from a driving p.o.v. .. engine suitably modded .. and combined with the fl1 weight / drivetrain / handling characteristics .. i much like it .. fairly chuffed at its performance within the general road population
( in that .. more bhp .. say above 150 .. might .. or would .. be ..
( a mistmatch to the drive train and suspension / brakes .. i.e. handling

from a mechanical / electric p.o.v. .. i.e. running reliability .. maintenance ..
seems like the electrics network ( sensors / earth-points / etc ) be the weaker part ..

dismantling / repairing / etc etc ..
lot's of " WTF did they design it This way !! "
e.g. having to remove gearbox to fix clutch hydraulics ..
etc .. etc ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

whether it's a fine lump .. or a pile of shyte ..
reminds me of the 318 detroit deisel 8v-71 ..
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_Series_71#Variants )

drivers hated them ..
( zippy acceleration .. but .. eff'all torque for hill climbing or headwind .. )

'n noisy .. tiring over a long haul ..
@ the 7:41 mark here :

( the v12 version has a better audio note methinks )

mechanics loved them .. real easy to work on ..
and .. modify for that matter ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
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Nodge68 said:
There was no other diesel alternative
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But there was - the Rover bofins had developed the L Series and created the TD4 sister to the TD5 - think it was the G Series - was basically ready for production, but BMW canned it so they could use their M47 and that got the TD4 name.

The TD5 is a pretty decent engine and I'm sure the G Series would have been as well.
 
Mine is the same, but this other garage I've found has told me that I didn't need to buy glow plugs (although it's not a bad idea), and that my injectors are all over the place. Going in on Friday to be put on machine to get sorted, costing £99.
 
ScottyDave said:
Mine is the same, but this other garage I've found has told me that I didn't need to buy glow plugs (although it's not a bad idea), and that my injectors are all over the place. Going in on Friday to be put on machine to get sorted, costing £99.
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They are sorting the injectors for £99? That's an expensive bottle of injector cleaner. :eek::confused:

Define "all over the place". Injectors work correctly or they don't. Other than cleaning, there's nothing else that can be done witb them except for a rebuild, which WILL cost more than £99.
 
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This is a quote he gave me. "Suspect injectors are faulty as on live data fueling is erratic between cylinders, recommend trying fortron fuel system cleaning service to clean and free system £99 Inc". He told me it's a new machine!
 
ScottyDave said:
This is a quote he gave me. "Suspect injectors are faulty as on live data fueling is erratic between cylinders, recommend trying fortron fuel system cleaning service to clean and free system £99 Inc". He told me it's a new machine!
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Perhaps he wants an excuse to use the new machine?! We've all done that.

I'm always a bit wary of suspiciously rounded prices for services like that. If it's £77.48 then it looks more like they've priced up time and materials properly.

I think the Fortron service involves splicing a fuel system cleaner dispenser into the fuel lines, so the injectors receive pure cleaner. I'm not sure - with modern plastic tanks, fuel filters, diesel etc. I can't see a 'dirty' injector being the problem. You could always try a double dose of injector cleaner first.
 
guineafowl21 said:
Perhaps he wants an excuse to use the new machine?! We've all done that.

I'm always a bit wary of suspiciously rounded prices for services like that. If it's £77.48 then it looks more like they've priced up time and materials properly.

I think the Fortron service involves splicing a fuel system cleaner dispenser into the fuel lines, so the injectors receive pure cleaner. I'm not sure - with modern plastic tanks, fuel filters, diesel etc. I can't see a 'dirty' injector being the problem. You could always try a double dose of injector cleaner first.
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This^^^^
Avoid fixed price injector cleaning. It's all sales bo...cks and won't fix faulty injectors. It'll just make them clean which improves the spray pattern. Get down to Halfords and buy a couple of bottles of Comma Diesel Magic. Stick it in the tank and drive it hard. That'll sort out the injectors as well as a £99 clean and cost under £15. ;)
 
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Nodge68 said:
This^^^^
Avoid fixed price injector cleaning. It's all sales bo...cks and won't fix faulty injectors. It'll just make them clean which improves the spray pattern. Get down to Halfords and buy a couple of bottles of Comma Diesel Magic. Stick it in the tank and drive it hard. That'll sort out the injectors as well as a £99 clean and cost under £15. ;)
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I am going to add diesel magic to the tank at the weekend would you recommend two bottles or would one and at least half a tank of fuel suffice?
 
Alex Blyth said:
I am going to add diesel magic to the tank at the weekend would you recommend two bottles or would one and at least half a tank of fuel suffice?
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I half fill my FL tank every week. I use one bottle a month in half a tank of standard Shell diesel. I have used 2 bottles to half a tank on a car with really fouled set of injectors. As to weather it needed it, I don't know. But my normal monthly dose keeps my aged injectors working correctly. :)
 
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On the way to the airport (when we met our Nissan Navarro loving 'village') I filled up on BP's stuff and added Comma's elixiar of great injector health. 50-60 minutes later, after mostly motorway speeds we hit some traffic....the Td 4 didn't like that at all and we barely 'chugged' into the airport drop off point. After leaving my daughter to 'face the music' and drive home alone I got through security and headed for the bar(mainly to connect to here and post 'regulator stuff') Think my daughter got home an hour later than planned and she noted(an aspiring Freelander owner no more/She knows a bit now!!) that the Td4 wouldn't get much over 2500 RPM whilst moving...something I have read about on here several times. She read that it may be MAF trouble(Google to a Landyzone article methinks?)We were going to give it a good clean but nowhere in Dundee had it(where we looked and asked anyway) Post EGR/inlet manifold 'degunk'(the EGR is stuck!!) post PCV service and no MAF sensor clean up I hardly was surprised. Anyway, she is going to clean the MAF when our online purchase arrives friday. Have given her instructions and even a screenshot of a Td4 engine bay, appropriately labelled up. She has access to my tools so lets see how she gets on....
 
Quite possibly, I carried out a mini service last week and cleaned the inlets etc so there are several possibilities. Unfortunately the service kit I bought didn't have a fuel filter (now ordered) and it was the 2nd bottle of additive in the tank in a row also....I have an open mind as to why it has gone like that, the MAF sensor needs cleaning (MAF cleaner delivered tomorrow hopefully) as it is very dirty. Holding off replacing it just now as want to sort a few other things first (my failed attempt at fitting my EGR delete for example) and cleaning it won't do any harm. Other than that, when motoring the car runs very well and everything we have done to it seems to give it a performance 'lift'. (in a Subjective, non 'Dyno-land' way..)
 
MollyNomad said:
Quite possibly, I carried out a mini service last week and cleaned the inlets etc so there are several possibilities. Unfortunately the service kit I bought didn't have a fuel filter (now ordered) and it was the 2nd bottle of additive in the tank in a row also....I have an open mind as to why it has gone like that, the MAF sensor needs cleaning (MAF cleaner delivered tomorrow hopefully) as it is very dirty. Holding off replacing it just now as want to sort a few other things first (my failed attempt at fitting my EGR delete for example) and cleaning it won't do any harm. Other than that, when motoring the car runs very well and everything we have done to it seems to give it a performance 'lift'. (in a Subjective, non 'Dyno-land' way..)
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A few points...
1. Don't use a cheap Britpart/Allmakes fuel filter - they've been suspected of collapsing internally.
2. I have doubts about cleaning Td4 MAF sensors, so will watch your progess with interest.
3. Your problem at the airport sounds more like fuel pump.

Anyway, best of luck, and let us know how you get on ;)
 
Hello again. Got car back from garage only to be told he couldn't get machine to work on car! Hey how, never mind. I went to shop and bought a bottle of Carlube diesel injector cleaner and put that in the tank. Seems to have helped a bit. Still a nightmare starting in the morning and takes a second or two when you put your foot down to pull away, but I'm going to put up with it
 
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