Swivel Ball seal replacement

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N

Nuffer

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Surrey
I am in the process of doing a full service on my Defender 90 1999 TD5 (so far done engine oil, both oil filters, fuel filer, air filter, front and rear diff oil, transfer box oil, and will finish with gearbox oil once my 32mm spanner arrives 👍).

While lying under the car I saw the swivel ball seals don't look great, but the balls look OK.

Looking on the Oracle of all amateur mechanics (youtube) it looks like you can take the whole hub assembly off (after taking the brake callipers off) and do this from the other side. Apart from the weight are there any reasons why this won't work?

Thanks

John



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Yes, if you separate it where the swivels are bolted on to the main axle tube with those 12 point bolts, it should be possible to take the whole lot off including the halfshaft, and get at the seals that way. And then when you're finished just slide it back in. Another workaround is to cut the seal so it'll go over the neck of the swivel ball and then position it so the cut is at the top, but that has never seemed like a good idea to me. It looks like a long time since they were apart, so while you're on the job it might be a good idea to take everything to pieces anyway. The steering swivels themselves (tapered roller bearings top and bottom) are apt to wear and I find the handling is improved by fitting new ones. Even if there's no actual slack, the rollers tend to wear the races so as to give you a 'notch' in the straight ahead position. Oh, and maybe new ball joints while you're at it!
 
I think it's a 14mm 12 point. I used an aviation spanner to start them going. I then used a ratchet spanner but make sure you get a reversible one as if you undo it too far you won't be able to get the spanner off!

You have to undo them all a little bit at a time as the screw head comes too far to remove the spanner.

Also remember you may loose some oil from the diff. Don't forget the gaskets. Perhaps replace the bolts or if not, don't forget the locktite.
 
i've done the ball seal by doing a full strip removing the full assembly and just cutting the seal
the cut way is a bit of a bodge but quick and easy to do
removing the full assembly is a pain to get the long side back in
the best way is to do a full strip and rebuild
 
--ped-- said:
i've done the ball seal by doing a full strip removing the full assembly and just cutting the seal
the cut way is a bit of a bodge but quick and easy to do
removing the full assembly is a pain to get the long side back in
the best way is to do a full strip and rebuild
Click to expand...
Why is it a bodge?...
 
When I did mine I jacked the end up to a high enough axle stand height, so the diff oil all stayed down the opposite end of the axle tube.
Those 12 point bolts can be a complete pain to get out if they've never been off. As tottot said, soak them in RP90, but I'd repeat that process for three or four days. Years since I did mine, but I had at least two on each side that i ended up grinding the heads off. The good thing when it comes off is you're left with a good length of bolt to get hold of because the flange is that thick.
 
Nuffer said:
I am in the process of doing a full service on my Defender 90 1999 TD5 (so far done engine oil, both oil filters, fuel filer, air filter, front and rear diff oil, transfer box oil, and will finish with gearbox oil once my 32mm spanner arrives 👍).

While lying under the car I saw the swivel ball seals don't look great, but the balls look OK.

Looking on the Oracle of all amateur mechanics (youtube) it looks like you can take the whole hub assembly off (after taking the brake callipers off) and do this from the other side. Apart from the weight are there any reasons why this won't work?

Thanks

John



View attachment 291633View attachment 291634
Click to expand...
I did that on both sides of my Ninety, worked fine for 5 years.

Be careful when hanging up the calipers, so as not to twist the flexible pipes.

And be careful when removing the assembly, so as not to put excessive load on the half shaft, and so as not to knacker your back, the whole hub and half shaft is quite heavy. Having something to support the hub assembly "on it's face" while you do the seal change is also helpful.

I doubt there is much wrong with the split seal method either, but I have never done it.
 
Turboman said:
I did that on both sides of my Ninety, worked fine for 5 years.

Be careful when hanging up the calipers, so as not to twist the flexible pipes.

And be careful when removing the assembly, so as not to put excessive load on the half shaft, and so as not to knacker your back, the whole hub and half shaft is quite heavy. Having something to support the hub assembly "on it's face" while you do the seal change is also helpful.

I doubt there is much wrong with the split seal method either, but I have never done it.
Click to expand...
Its the only way to do it on a 101...
 
Thanks for all the replies, a few questions:

Haynes manual often references up to 1999 model, or after 1999 model, my TD5 is a 1999 model 😂. Is that referring to 300TDi vs TD5 or is not that simple? Would a TD5 have a 64mm locknut & adjusting nut for example?
If I do take it all to bits, would this kit be sufficient for consumables? https://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/defender-swivel-housing-repair-kit-without-housing-with-abs/
PR-90 is on it's way, what else would you recommend I have to hand before I start?
What grease should I get?

I'm fairly competent with basic car maintenance but this is pushing my confidence a little 🤓

Cheers

John
 
Shippers said:
Why is it a bodge?...
Click to expand...
on a std axle it can be fitted without cutting
from memory the salibury type front axles had a precut seal designed to be joined not the std one that needed cutting and the tensioner altering so it could be joined together
as i said i've done it that way it works but imo a bit of a bodge
 
Nuffer said:
Thanks for all the replies, a few questions:

Haynes manual often references up to 1999 model, or after 1999 model, my TD5 is a 1999 model 😂. Is that referring to 300TDi vs TD5 or is not that simple? Would a TD5 have a 64mm locknut & adjusting nut for example?
If I do take it all to bits, would this kit be sufficient for consumables? https://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/defender-swivel-housing-repair-kit-without-housing-with-abs/
PR-90 is on it's way, what else would you recommend I have to hand before I start?
What grease should I get?

I'm fairly competent with basic car maintenance but this is pushing my confidence a little 🤓

Cheers

John
Click to expand...
The kit is probably fine, I hope so, I just bought one for the Series from Paddock. :)

With nuts over about 40 mm, I don't have any spanners that big, so I just use Stilsons. Been doing this for over 40 years, and not had any problems.

It is actually an easy job, this is 1940s tech, slightly improved. Just record where everything was, either by taking photos, or reference to a manual, unbolt it all, clean it up a bit an replace worn parts as required, and bolt it up again.

Slow and methodical, but nothing complicated, no electronics, the sort of old fashioned spannering that people used to enjoy.
 
The hub nut(s) are 52 mm rather than 64 mm. Older models had two, with a lock washer between, whereas newer ones had a single nut and a spacer. I actually bought a 52mm socket, but if you dismantle older Land Rovers you'll notice that not a lot of people have this tool because the nuts are often scarred where people have tried to chisel them round.

Yes, 1999 is probably the change between 300TDi and TD5. It's probably not so critical for the steering swivels though, as they stayed pretty much the same.

The kit looks like it has a useful range of stuff in it to do the job. Is yours definitely an ABS model? I can't see the sensor wires in the pictures, but maybe they're out of view. The hubs were slightly different between the ABS and non-ABS models.

If your brake calipers are held on with the later splined head bolts, an old fashioned 1/2" imperial socket is a much tighter fit (and less likely to strip the splines off) than a 12mm one.

It's not too hard to do at home; I've done mine at the side of the road a couple of times.
 
Nuffer said:
Thanks for all the replies, a few questions:

Haynes manual often references up to 1999 model, or after 1999 model, my TD5 is a 1999 model 😂. Is that referring to 300TDi vs TD5 or is not that simple? Would a TD5 have a 64mm locknut & adjusting nut for example?
If I do take it all to bits, would this kit be sufficient for consumables? https://www.jgs4x4.co.uk/defender-swivel-housing-repair-kit-without-housing-with-abs/
PR-90 is on it's way, what else would you recommend I have to hand before I start?
What grease should I get?

I'm fairly competent with basic car maintenance but this is pushing my confidence a little 🤓

Cheers

John
Click to expand...
So have you decided to strip the hub housing all the way down or are you going with your original plan?
if you are going with your original plan then that kit is overkill. That said spares on a shelf is never bad:).
I would also recommend at least a set of bolts for 1 side for brake calipers and swivel ball to axle, and hub nut (if its a staked 1) ;).and buy a socket it will save your knuckles and heartache. And build your box of shiny things:).

If and when you dig in there are always things that come up, if somebody has been in before the nut may have no staking left you can use, If you get stuck and mangle a bolt (we all do:oops:) you are then waiting for spares.

How are you flexi brake pipes cos once you start to flex them outside their normal you may find they need looking at. Have you cleaned your balls off;) to see their actual condition?

Personally If you are hesitant at this (at this time) I would be ready to try the split the seal method as you find you cant get bolts off or are mangling to many, I see no reason for it not to work, it will then give you time to get to know it and build confidence. Will also give you insight into why we all own big hammers:).

You can see how fast a simple job grows arms and legs.

But hey we love em:vb-groan2:


J
 
Or maybe it's the 13mm socket that's a poor fit on the brake caliper bolts. But at any rate, a 1/2" socket is much better and less likely to round them off.
 
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