starting problem

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Not sure how the fuse could blow when disconnecting the positive supply to the starter - as current would go from battery, to starter, to earth then back to battery.

Incidentally, which fuse is going?

Looking at Rave, Fuse 1 in the engine compartment box is a a 30amp 'N' colour fuse. This is inline to the Starter Solendoid Relay - ie the wiring goes from battery to Fuse 1 to Starter Solenoid Relay and then onto the Starter Solenoid and then to earth.

The Starter Solenoid Relay is activated by a feed from the CCU. The CCU will raise that feed when the key is turned in the ignition and the security allows the starter motor to be driven.

Incidentally, within the Relay housing, the Fuse F1 feed does also appear to feed into a "Heated Oxygen Sensor" relay (whjat ever that is!) - but looking at the wiring diagram, that relay does not appear to be supplying powering anything!

Rave also states that there is a Fuse F5 in the passenger compartment box that is a 10amp 'WR' colour fuse for starter motor. However, looking at the wiring diagram, there is a direct feed from the positive terminal on the battery to the starter motor and the starter motor is then earthed - so there is no fuse shown in the circuit diagram!

What ever, it appears there are 2 feeds to the starter motor - 1 for the solenoid and another for the motor itself. In your test where you put a jump lead from battery to the 'starter motor' - you probably actually put a feed from the battery to the starter solenoid - this would mean that the starter motor curcuit was being used as normal and the problem is there.

The fuse that is blowing is in the engine compartment and is marked as SM which i gather means starter motor.

When i did the test i put the jump lead from the battery live to the starter solenoid connection as thats what my mate told me to do. The engine started up ok first time but blew the fuse the second time.

Its just one brake light that is out.

Where is the starter motor earth point? There are only 2 wires on the starter none of them are earths.

Cheers.
 
The fuse that is blowing is in the engine compartment and is marked as SM which i gather means starter motor.

When i did the test i put the jump lead from the battery live to the starter solenoid connection as thats what my mate told me to do. The engine started up ok first time but blew the fuse the second time.

Its just one brake light that is out.

Where is the starter motor earth point? There are only 2 wires on the starter none of them are earths.

Cheers.

Are you serious
 
Yes mate. Im not mechanical and have no idea about the way a car or its electrics work. I am learning tho

Exactly, everyone has to learn at some point. Well done for trying.

The starter will probably be earthed through the engine... The battery basically has a wire going from the negative battery to the car's chassis/body. So the whole car becomes a earth 'wire' going back to the negative pole. The engine is metal and bolted to the chassis, so that to becomes an earth. The starter's bolted to the engine....

I missed a bit on the wiring diagram, the wire from the ignition switch goes to the F5 fuse in the passenger compartment, that them also goes to the Start Motor Solenoid Relay...

If you're not sure what a Relay is, I'm probably not the best to explain, but basically they are a switch - in this case a switch to turn on power to the starter motor solenoid. Instead of a push button (or rocker switch etc) they use power going through another wire to switch it on or off. It gives 2 benefits that I know of - (1) you can put 'logic' on the switch wire so that it becomes a 'clever' switch and (2) you can safely put a lot of current (amps) through the power wires while keeping the switch wire a current (eg you don't want 30amps going through the ignition switch).

I missed a part of the circuit diagram. In the engine compartment fuse box there's a link to a wire to the ignition switch. The 'crank' position has the WR wire going to Fuse 5 in the passenger compartment fuse box. From there there's a WR wire to the Starter Motor Solenoid Relay.

So the Starter Motor Solenoid Relay 'switch wire' is fed from the ignition switch via the passenger compartment F5 fuse. It is earthed to the CCU. I imagine the CCU open's this earth if the imobiliser says its safe to start the car. So with the ignition switch on crank and the CCU set to safe - there will be a current through that will 'turn on' the Relay.

The 'power' feed that is turned on from the Relay comes from the battery via your tripping F1 fuse in the engine compartment to the Relay and from there to the Starter Solenoid on the Starter motor - and is earthed through the engine.

Give that F5 is not blowing, the switching circuitry is all working well and has been protected from damage by the Relay. You can therefore disregard the fuse box in the passenger compartment - unless someone else thinks otherwise.

There's 2 power feeds to the Starter Motor, the direct feed from the battery (no inline fuses or relays) is the main one that actually turns the motor. The other one (which goes through F1 Fuse and the Relay) engages (turns on) the Solenoid that actually turns on the main feed.

If you had disconnected the Solenoid feed and jumped a wire directly from the battery to the solenoid - then I really don't know how Fuse 1 could have blown. You would have had direct live connections to solenoid and motor and direct earths through the engine/chassis. All the car's wiring would have been bypassed.

The only things I can think of is corrosion or an earth around the F1 fuse or an earth in the wire from the F1 Fuse to the Starter Relay.

I'm no where near an expert in these matters. Hopefully you can understand a bit more from my ramblings and I haven't lead you up any garden paths!
 
how's ur sanity today mate

have u got a haynes manual by the way

am looking online for u to find a starter motor wiring diagram so can then see what and where the wires go to and from the starter motor in the way of a diagram to see if it makes life easier to try and find the fault

not sure but anyone with a 1.8 has it got the cut out switch under the bonnet ,plse
 
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Ok stebo when exactly does it blow the fuse?
1 immediately you turn key to start position

2 when engine is cranking

3 when engine fires (starts)
 
Exactly, everyone has to learn at some point. Well done for trying.

The starter will probably be earthed through the engine... The battery basically has a wire going from the negative battery to the car's chassis/body. So the whole car becomes a earth 'wire' going back to the negative pole. The engine is metal and bolted to the chassis, so that to becomes an earth. The starter's bolted to the engine....

I missed a bit on the wiring diagram, the wire from the ignition switch goes to the F5 fuse in the passenger compartment, that them also goes to the Start Motor Solenoid Relay...

If you're not sure what a Relay is, I'm probably not the best to explain, but basically they are a switch - in this case a switch to turn on power to the starter motor solenoid. Instead of a push button (or rocker switch etc) they use power going through another wire to switch it on or off. It gives 2 benefits that I know of - (1) you can put 'logic' on the switch wire so that it becomes a 'clever' switch and (2) you can safely put a lot of current (amps) through the power wires while keeping the switch wire a current (eg you don't want 30amps going through the ignition switch).

I missed a part of the circuit diagram. In the engine compartment fuse box there's a link to a wire to the ignition switch. The 'crank' position has the WR wire going to Fuse 5 in the passenger compartment fuse box. From there there's a WR wire to the Starter Motor Solenoid Relay.

So the Starter Motor Solenoid Relay 'switch wire' is fed from the ignition switch via the passenger compartment F5 fuse. It is earthed to the CCU. I imagine the CCU open's this earth if the imobiliser says its safe to start the car. So with the ignition switch on crank and the CCU set to safe - there will be a current through that will 'turn on' the Relay.

The 'power' feed that is turned on from the Relay comes from the battery via your tripping F1 fuse in the engine compartment to the Relay and from there to the Starter Solenoid on the Starter motor - and is earthed through the engine.

Give that F5 is not blowing, the switching circuitry is all working well and has been protected from damage by the Relay. You can therefore disregard the fuse box in the passenger compartment - unless someone else thinks otherwise.

There's 2 power feeds to the Starter Motor, the direct feed from the battery (no inline fuses or relays) is the main one that actually turns the motor. The other one (which goes through F1 Fuse and the Relay) engages (turns on) the Solenoid that actually turns on the main feed.

If you had disconnected the Solenoid feed and jumped a wire directly from the battery to the solenoid - then I really don't know how Fuse 1 could have blown. You would have had direct live connections to solenoid and motor and direct earths through the engine/chassis. All the car's wiring would have been bypassed.

The only things I can think of is corrosion or an earth around the F1 fuse or an earth in the wire from the F1 Fuse to the Starter Relay.

I'm no where near an expert in these matters. Hopefully you can understand a bit more from my ramblings and I haven't lead you up any garden paths!

:doh: the engine is bolted to the chassis via rubber engine mounts, there will be a cable from the engine to the battery -ve or to the chassis to complete the curcuit
 
Not sure how the fuse could blow when disconnecting the positive supply to the starter - as current would go from battery, to starter, to earth then back to battery.

Incidentally, which fuse is going?

Looking at Rave, Fuse 1 in the engine compartment box is a a 30amp 'N' colour fuse. This is inline to the Starter Solendoid Relay - ie the wiring goes from battery to Fuse 1 to Starter Solenoid Relay and then onto the Starter Solenoid and then to earth.

The Starter Solenoid Relay is activated by a feed from the CCU. The CCU will raise that feed when the key is turned in the ignition and the security allows the starter motor to be driven.

Incidentally, within the Relay housing, the Fuse F1 feed does also appear to feed into a "Heated Oxygen Sensor" relay (whjat ever that is!) - but looking at the wiring diagram, that relay does not appear to be supplying powering anything!

Rave also states that there is a Fuse F5 in the passenger compartment box that is a 10amp 'WR' colour fuse for starter motor. However, looking at the wiring diagram, there is a direct feed from the positive terminal on the battery to the starter motor and the starter motor is then earthed - so there is no fuse shown in the circuit diagram!

What ever, it appears there are 2 feeds to the starter motor - 1 for the solenoid and another for the motor itself. In your test where you put a jump lead from battery to the 'starter motor' - you probably actually put a feed from the battery to the starter solenoid - this would mean that the starter motor curcuit was being used as normal and the problem is there.

More commonly known as ''Lambda sensor'' although its correct name is HEGO ''heated exhaust gas oxygen'' sensor.
 
Hi stebo, I know it might not be this, but just wanted to share my experiences of a starter motor issue, i have a KV6 and a 1.8 (2000 model 5 door like yours). A few weeks ago, my father drove the 1.8 through water (flooded underpass, poor storm water drainage, prolonged heavy rain), he reported that water reached the top of the wheels at one point. Made it through fine, but my starter motor was kaputt a few weeks later. It just wouldn't start or crank at all. I remember it left me stranded and i hit it a few times with an object at my disposal while my mother tried to crank it. Fortunately, it was dark outside with minimal street lighting at this railway station car park, and on the 5th attempt, i hit the starter and she cranked it, the Freelander came to life and started up... but not before I observed a whole array of sparks coming from the starter! Replaced the starter and haven't had issues since, haven't been in deep water with in either mind you! As I've renewed the starter, when I next am due to bleed coolant if and when i work on the 1.8, i now cover the starter adequately or simply remove it altogether to stop it getting saturated with coolant. Another thing i had before that was that the small black negative cable would keep falling off the starter motor, i had to manually keep putting it back on - don't have this issue with the KV6, it seems that the negative terminal on the old starter was bad and worn and the cable would repeatedly fall off.
 
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Hi stebo, I know it might not be this, but just wanted to share my experiences of a starter motor issue, i have a KV6 and a 1.8 (2000 model 5
He's already stated he has changed the starter motor twice, would the small earth wire that kept falling off be the one that goes to the solenoid by any chance? quite close to the big cable.
 
It would be going to the solenoid. He did change it twice but i thought worth mentioning as he coincidentally went through that large puddle which splashed water on his winscreen, unless the underbelly cover is on, the starter and other components would have been saturated. Follow the wiring harness all the way as it travels at the rear of the engine and confirm that it isn't damaged at any point, including the wiring to the starter and alternator.
 
It would be going to the solenoid. He did change it twice but i thought worth mentioning as he coincidentally went through that large puddle which splashed water on his winscreen, unless the underbelly cover is on, the starter and other components would have been saturated. Follow the wiring harness all the way as it travels at the rear of the engine and confirm that it isn't damaged at any point, including the wiring to the starter and alternator.

Thats not an earth its the its the feed to the solenoid from the ignition switch.

I think you'll find he changed the starter motor after the puddle incident because thats what has caused the problem in the first place.
 
as u guys have got the 1.8 could all the leads be removed from the starter motor , then with a couple of jump leads ,put an earth onto the battery and starter motor ,then use the pos lead to start it and prove that it isn't in any way a bad batch etc, didn't know if that would work

could water in the small 12 volt plug cause the issue, rust etc from excess water damage

could by using an electrical spray help with any of these issues

im only clutching at straws here as u guys have more experiance than I do with this subject

just curiuos and thks
 
With the starter motor being earthed through the engine do you think i should remove the starter and clean all around where it goes with a wire brush? I have replaced the earth from the battery to the engine. Also replaced the starter twice.

As for my sanity it seems to be just about gone :(
 
With the starter motor being earthed through the engine do you think i should remove the starter and clean all around where it goes with a wire brush? I have replaced the earth from the battery to the engine. Also replaced the starter twice.

As for my sanity it seems to be just about gone :(

No, the problem you have is with the live feed to the starter solenoid (small wire) have you read my previous post/question?
 
No, the problem you have is with the live feed to the starter solenoid (small wire) have you read my previous post/question?

Yes just read it sorry i was in work so couldnt pay much attention. The fuse blows as soon as the engine fires up most of the time but on a couple of occasions it doesnt blow until a few seconds later. The other day it didnt blow at all and i took the fuse out while the car was still running. I put the fuse back in then about 5 seconds later it blew.
 
I'm still thinking its corrosion/earth around fuse F1, or the wire from there to relay, or possibly the relay is caput. Its got to be one of those because that feed does not go past the relay when the ignition is not at crank.
 
I'm still thinking its corrosion/earth around fuse F1, or the wire from there to relay, or possibly the relay is caput. Its got to be one of those because that feed does not go past the relay when the ignition is not at crank.

i believe it blows a fuse a few seconds after the engine fires , not every time but 9 out of 10 times it blows

know it would drive me nuts that's for sure , never a simple fix

just been trying to find a clear wiring circuit of the starter motor , so easier to see than it writing of the wires route
 
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