P38A Starter problems

EntropyUK · Mar 22, 2016

My 99 DHSE has started to show problems starting. It started a couple of weeks ago and is rather intermittent. Anyhow the problem is that as the engine is cranked it feels as if the starter disengages from the flywheel. It happened yesterday so I kept the key in the start position and I could clearly hear the starter still running. So where do I start with diagnosing the problem?

tomcat59alan · Mar 22, 2016

Oh, sounds like you have missing teeth on the flywheel.

dubbleRR · Mar 22, 2016

flexi plate

wammers · Mar 22, 2016

Could be the one way clutch in the bendix failing.

tomcat59alan · Mar 22, 2016

wammers said:
Could be the one way clutch in the bendix failing.

Yes could be, take the starter off, check the teeth and the starter.

wammers · Mar 22, 2016

If the ring gear is good and the bendix teeth are good and the starter motor spins but does not turn the engine the only possible thing it can be is the one way clutch letting go.

jamesmartin · Mar 22, 2016

or flexi plate as previously stated

wammers · Mar 22, 2016

jamesmartin said:
or flexi plate as previously stated

Extremely doubtful scenario that the ring gear plate has broken. The flexi plate won't effect the starter. This is not a V8 James.

jamesmartin · Mar 22, 2016

wammers said:
Extremely doubtful scenario that the ring gear plate has broken. The flexi plate won't effect the starter. This is not a V8 James.

flexi plate was incorrect butdrive plates do break around the center not uncommonly,loosing drive,providing its an auto

wammers · Mar 22, 2016

jamesmartin said:
flexi plate was incorrect butdrive plates do break around the center not uncommonly,loosing drive,providing its an auto

Will have to take your word for it, but i have never heard of that happening. On the M51 It is quite a stiff piece of kit.

Grrrrrr · Mar 22, 2016

jamesmartin said:
flexi plate was incorrect butdrive plates do break around the center not uncommonly,loosing drive,providing its an auto

Pretty certain his is the auto. I remember it was a later diesel (V-reg) with EGR and his boost and ambient pressure were identical.

Grrrrrr · Mar 22, 2016

Might be of interest?

http://www.landroverblogger.com/starter-motor-repair-replacement

If the starter was only spinning slowly would it fail to engage and cause the symptoms above? So battery maybe not 100% or possibly starter gummed up a bit and needs a clean?

I do remember my starter motor being an absolute PITA to get off. I used a very long extension I borrowed off someone to get in over the top of the gearbox.

wammers · Mar 22, 2016

Grrrrrr said:
Might be of interest?

http://www.landroverblogger.com/starter-motor-repair-replacement

If the starter was only spinning slowly would it fail to engage and cause the symptoms above? So battery maybe not 100% or possibly starter gummed up a bit and needs a clean?

I do remember my starter motor being an absolute PITA to get off. I used a very long extension I borrowed off someone to get in over the top of the gearbox.

No, the starter is pre engaged, it does not turn until the solenoid has sent it into mesh, only then is the contact to run it made.

kds · Mar 22, 2016

My money is on wammers, had same thing happen on 200tdi put in my classic.

EntropyUK · Mar 23, 2016

Thanks guys, the starter turns over normally so I do not perceive that its slow. It initially cranks for about 1/2 a sec then disengages. A few tries to restart and then all is OK again. I don't think it a teeth problem as it only manifested itself only a couple of weeks ago with no warning prior to that, plus being an auto I cannot move the car yet it turns over. If it was a tooth problem wouldn't I be pretty stuck until the flywheel was rotated? So is this starter repairable or is it a case of remove and replace? Haven't looked at the cost of a new one yet (bit scared to be honest)

wammers · Mar 23, 2016

EntropyUK said:
Thanks guys, the starter turns over normally so I do not perceive that its slow. It initially cranks for about 1/2 a sec then disengages. A few tries to restart and then all is OK again. I don't think it a teeth problem as it only manifested itself only a couple of weeks ago with no warning prior to that, plus being an auto I cannot move the car yet it turns over. If it was a tooth problem wouldn't I be pretty stuck until the flywheel was rotated? So is this starter repairable or is it a case of remove and replace? Haven't looked at the cost of a new one yet (bit scared to be honest)

There is a sprag clutch in the part that is pushed in by the solenoid to engage with the ring gear. If the sprag clutch has failed the starter will engage and the motor will turn but the bendix will not turn. If that is the case it's a new bendix or a new starter. The term Bendix is a generic term used to describe the part of the starter that engages with the ring gear. Although in the proper sense of the word in the case of a pre engaged starter it is not a true Bendix gear. If all else is good that can be the only thing wrong. You can remove the starter and run it on the bench all day and it will appear to work perfectly. Only when the sprag clutch comes under pressure from the engagement with the ring gear will it let go. The sprag clutch is there so the engine does not drive the starter motor when running if they are left in engagement.

Grrrrrr · Mar 23, 2016

EntropyUK said:
Thanks guys, the starter turns over normally so I do not perceive that its slow. It initially cranks for about 1/2 a sec then disengages. A few tries to restart and then all is OK again. I don't think it a teeth problem as it only manifested itself only a couple of weeks ago with no warning prior to that, plus being an auto I cannot move the car yet it turns over. If it was a tooth problem wouldn't I be pretty stuck until the flywheel was rotated? So is this starter repairable or is it a case of remove and replace? Haven't looked at the cost of a new one yet (bit scared to be honest)

Could try cleaning it up and out and hope.

About £130 from Island.

wammers · Mar 23, 2016

Grrrrrr said:
Could try cleaning it up and out and hope.

About £130 from Island.

You can't clean the sprag clutch it is a sealed unit. When it's knackered, it's knackered, simple as that.

Grrrrrr · Mar 23, 2016

wammers said:
You can't clean the sprag clutch it is a sealed unit. When it's knackered, it's knackered, simple as that.

Was thinking if stripping the starter and blowing out as much cr@p as possible and seeing is he got lucky. Given the hassle getting the sod off I'd just pay the £130 and be done with it though. Depends how tight funds are that month.

wammers · Mar 23, 2016

Grrrrrr said:
Was thinking if stripping the starter and blowing out as much cr@p as possible and seeing is he got lucky. Given the hassle getting the sod off I'd just pay the £130 and be done with it though. Depends how tight funds are that month.

Makes sense changing it. Cleaning it out will do nothing except make it shinier.

P38A Starter problems

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