Stability on ice

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85Santana3

85Santana3

Active Member
Posts
284
Location
Canada
Howdy folks
what is your experience in winter driving? How stable is a series landy on snow and ice? If you spin is the shape and weight of the truck that is the cause of problem or tyres?
reason for my question is that:
Yesterday weather was like a nice spring day and roads were clear of snow and ice (or so I thought) I was driving at about 40km/hr (25 m/hr) on what I though was a good road. Suddenly the landi started to slide and before I knew it I made a 90 degree spin and was perpendicular to the direction I was going. I got down to inspect the road and saw that there was less than a mm of ice on part of the road where I made the spin. Too thin or small to even be noticed. In addition to feeling like a fool I am curious as what I have to do to prevent such a problem in future. I had jeeps before and have driven 20yr + in winters but never such an experience before.
Thanks for any input in advance.
 
I reckon it's on account of the fact that a series weighs in considerably less than any of your other vehicles, and therefore doesn't enjoy that much stability as it's younger siblings with all their weight bearing down on the tyres. But then again, that's what makes standard series vehicles so good off road; they don't sink as much into the muck and so rarely get stuck.
Could also be just down to the fact that you need a new set of tyres..... just my thoughts. :)
 
Having a motorcycle for the last 50 or more years helps. Anyone with experience of two wheels learns how to read the road surface, when temperatures are down never trust what looks like a wet road. I am always looking at the road surface even in summer time. Drive smoothly, try to throttle off for engine braking rather than brake just the same as on loose surfaces it all helps.
 
Series Landy's as james says are rear wheel drive. Also if yours is empty it will be a very tail happy rear wheel drive....

There are a few things you can do to help:
- buy decent tyres
- load up the back (a bonnet mounted spare makes things worse, I've found a tail-gate mounted one makes a difference - a few bags of coarse sand in the boot can be useful if you get stuck too...)
- reduce tyre pressures a little
- slacken off your seat belt so you can reach the yellow knob in a hurry...
- change up a gear and do not brake on corners

The 4wd arrangement on a series is absolutely awful in changeable conditions, if there is any ice you will slide in 2wd, if you leave it in 4wd you will wind up and break the transmission. Having to stop to get out of 4wd is also a pain.

Once there are a few inches of snow it's great, bang it in 4wd and enjoy....

I drove a modern Jeep in Alberta and BC the other year and it was almost impossible to get it out of control...my mates F350 was almost impossible to get it to go in a straight line...
 
I had this truck for about a year and I thought I had educated myself on its mechanics, being rear wheel drive is news to me ! Thanks James.
Dominic I am not sure if I understand this part:
============
The 4wd arrangement on a series is absolutely awful in changeable conditions, if there is any ice you will slide in 2wd, if you leave it in 4wd you will wind up and break the transmission. Having to stop to get out of 4wd is also a pain.
============
I appreciate if somebody explains it.

There are a lot of threads on tyres I guess I have to do some reading to find a good winter tyres option.

As for Jeeps being more stable I have to agree I had an old Sahara YJ for many years and with good winter tyres never had any issues in very severe winter conditions. It's a shame Chrysler has ruined the jeeps, they used to be good, functional trucks.
 
85Santana3 said:
As for Jeeps being more stable I have to agree I had an old Sahara YJ for many years and with good winter tyres never had any issues in very severe winter conditions. It's a shame Chrysler has ruined the jeeps, they used to be good, functional trucks.
Click to expand...

can make a world of difference.
 
85Santana3 said:
I had this truck for about a year and I thought I had educated myself on its mechanics, being rear wheel drive is news to me ! Thanks James.
Dominic I am not sure if I understand this part:
============
The 4wd arrangement on a series is absolutely awful in changeable conditions, if there is any ice you will slide in 2wd, if you leave it in 4wd you will wind up and break the transmission. Having to stop to get out of 4wd is also a pain.
============
I appreciate if somebody explains it.

There are a lot of threads on tyres I guess I have to do some reading to find a good winter tyres option.

As for Jeeps being more stable I have to agree I had an old Sahara YJ for many years and with good winter tyres never had any issues in very severe winter conditions. It's a shame Chrysler has ruined the jeeps, they used to be good, functional trucks.
Click to expand...


A Series in 4wd has direct drive through the transfer box front and back, like having a permanent 4wd with centre diff locked.

Any difference in wheel speed (tyre size, tight corners etc) puts a huge strain on the drive train unless that difference can be equalled out by tyres slipping on the surface (ice/mud etc)

Changing from 2wd to 4wd and back is possible at slow speeds by double de-clutching but it's not great
 
85Santana3 said:
I had this truck for about a year and I thought I had educated myself on its mechanics, being rear wheel drive is news to me ! Thanks James.
Dominic I am not sure if I understand this part:
============
The 4wd arrangement on a series is absolutely awful in changeable conditions, if there is any ice you will slide in 2wd, if you leave it in 4wd you will wind up and break the transmission. Having to stop to get out of 4wd is also a pain.
============
I appreciate if somebody explains it.
Click to expand...

Series vehicles normally run in 2wd on the road as it has a transfer box, not a central differential, meaning that in 4wd the front and rear prop shafts are forced to rotate at the same speed so the road wheels must be able to slip to account for the different speeds that the front and rear wheels are required to travel at when cornering. If the wheels cannot slip then there is a torquing force applied to the propshafts and transfer box (ie transmission wind up) which may lead to you breaking something in the drivetrain. Newer defenders have a central differential (with diff lock) which when unlocked allows the front and rear propshafts to rotate at different speeds to account for the difference in road wheel speed and hence the Defender can run in 4wd (without diff lock) on tarmac. If a central differential is locked then it essentially acts like the transfer box in a Series and forces the front and rear props to rotate at the same speed.

When Series vehicles are driven in high range on the road it is 2wd, the two driven wheels are the rear wheels, the front wheels are only driven (and hence it is only 4wd) when the yellow nob is depressed or if low range is selected. You can only run 4wd high range when the wheels can slip and you can only change between 2wd high range and 4wd high range when the vehicle is stopped, so if the road conditions are variable you have to keep stopping to switch between 2wd and 4wd when you get to clean tarmac or slush/snow.

Hope that helps?
 
Last edited:
85Santana3 said:
I had this truck for about a year and I thought I had educated myself on its mechanics, being rear wheel drive is news to me ! Thanks James.
Dominic I am not sure if I understand this part:
============
The 4wd arrangement on a series is absolutely awful in changeable conditions, if there is any ice you will slide in 2wd, if you leave it in 4wd you will wind up and break the transmission. Having to stop to get out of 4wd is also a pain.
============
I appreciate if somebody explains it.

There are a lot of threads on tyres I guess I have to do some reading to find a good winter tyres option.

As for Jeeps being more stable I have to agree I had an old Sahara YJ for many years and with good winter tyres never had any issues in very severe winter conditions. It's a shame Chrysler has ruined the jeeps, they used to be good, functional trucks.
Click to expand...

Chrysler did not ruin them. they refined/improved them. the YJ was a very ugly body style. The mechanics was the same. And your 4 wheel drives must be different.
Your UK 4 wheel drive must be different than american 4 wheel drive. Drove about 150 miles( of a 500 mile trip) on Jan 4th ice,snow slush very bad conditions. Locked in 4 wheel drive high range and drove about 45mph was a white knuckle experience, added 2 hours to a 8 hour trip.
Now issue with drive line wrap up. Dry roads will do that
 
85Santana3 said:
I had this truck for about a year and I thought I had educated myself on its mechanics, being rear wheel drive is news to me ! Thanks James.
Dominic I am not sure if I understand this part:
============
The 4wd arrangement on a series is absolutely awful in changeable conditions, if there is any ice you will slide in 2wd, if you leave it in 4wd you will wind up and break the transmission. Having to stop to get out of 4wd is also a pain.
============
I appreciate if somebody explains it.

There are a lot of threads on tyres I guess I have to do some reading to find a good winter tyres option.

As for Jeeps being more stable I have to agree I had an old Sahara YJ for many years and with good winter tyres never had any issues in very severe winter conditions. It's a shame Chrysler has ruined the jeeps, they used to be good, functional trucks.
Click to expand...
The Jeep Rubicon functions quite well, thank you.
 
Thor1950 said:
Chrysler did not ruin them. they refined/improved them. the YJ was a very ugly body style. The mechanics was the same. And your 4 wheel drives must be different.
Your UK 4 wheel drive must be different than american 4 wheel drive. Drove about 150 miles( of a 500 mile trip) on Jan 4th ice,snow slush very bad conditions. Locked in 4 wheel drive high range and drove about 45mph was a white knuckle experience, added 2 hours to a 8 hour trip.
Now issue with drive line wrap up. Dry roads will do that
Click to expand...

Ice/snow/slush is no problem it's when you encounter stretches with good traction that it starts to become an issue
 
Thor1950 said:
you read my last sentence:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

So why suggest US 4wd works differently?

Santana was quite clear and specific about changeable conditions and once again others have had to post for no other reason than to try and clear the waters you have muddied for absolutely no reason so go roll your eyes at someone else :mad:
 
blue beasty said:
So why suggest US 4wd works differently?

Santana was quite clear and specific about changeable conditions and once again others have had to post for no other reason than to try and clear the waters you have muddied for absolutely no reason so go roll your eyes at someone else :mad:
Click to expand...

guess you missed. Mine is 2 wheel drive until i lock the hubs and flick the switch for 4 wheel. Never mind, where is the surrender monkey flag smiley thingy
 
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