Speaker Upgrade

Right, as Pikey tore a big hole in my bag and the cat is nowhere to be seen, I can ask a question about Er Indoor's Gayl......sorry Freelander.

In less than 4 months she has blown all the speakers out, I had a look in Rave and at the actual speakers themselves only to find they are a custom fitting.

I have searched on line and have been unable to find any specifically designed for the Hippo.

Now has anyone found a good alternative that can be fitted as is or modded to fit. The factory fit are 13cm speakers rated at 15W. The head unit in the car now is putting out 50W per channel.


For reference it's a 2002 TD4 3dr hardback.

Matches and petrol :hysterically_laughi

might want to get her hearing tested before you replace anything - but then if she's been putting up to 50w out to much lower rated speakers it's no wonder they have died

redhand said:

Matches and petrol :hysterically_laughi

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I'll let yu tell er that next time you venture down this way :crutch:

I am putting 40w out of my factory jobs...no distortion and they sound pretty damn good actually.
The clubbers guide to Ibiza is cool

gavmoulds said:

I am putting 40w out of my factory jobs...no distortion and they sound pretty damn good actually.
The clubbers guide to Ibiza is cool

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yer not painting a good image there .........

I'm getting a picture of a greasy haired metal head here.

I like my music with presence and I haven't fried any drivers. The system distorts way before the voice coils get that hot. The mechnical resistance to the cone moving is lighter for a lower power speaker, otherwise it wouldn't more, a characteristic known as its Compliance. Therefore it is easier to drive a low power speaker into distortion with a higher powered amp and that won't sound good. Therefore, unless you are trying to murder the song you're listening to you would have turned it down before it lit up the voice coil. Besides the average music power is only a few watts, its the peak that gets high.

Also, driving a 15W speaker with a 50W amp isn't going to be a problem because it probably is 50W combined music power, which is some mistical figure that sounds boyed up. They will then quote actual power RMS as about 10W per channel.

Now assuming that your Mrs isn't a metal head and doesn't gun the system that hard to murder her songs and ultimately the voice coils then I'd beat you've got a problem with your amplifiers.

Two possibilities.

DC offset, where a continious DC signal is present due to an amplifier fault. The AC music signal is modulated over the top of the that so the system will work, although the coils are forced off centre. However, the voice coils will heat up and eventually fail. A DC volt meter across the speaker coil with the volume turned to minimum will prove this. Don't reference the car bodywork. Car amps use inverters to get their supply voltage up and their internal reference isn't always battery negitive.

Second possibility is your amp is self oscillating at very high frequency and high magnitude. If the amp uses MOSFET output drivers and there is a fault then a high signal with a frequency in the Megahertz is possible, way behond audio range so you can't hear it but the speaker coils get smoked as a result. Eventually the FETs give up as well.

Determine if your wife is throttle happy with the sound system, if she is not then I would suggest you consider replacing the amp / head unit as well, because if it is faulty then you'll only fry your new drivers, when you find some.

I hope this helps.

Dave

Darmain said:

I'm getting a picture of a greasy haired metal head here.

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playing "the clubbers guide to Ibiza" ? - i doubt that

um sq aint effected by power domian - infact over powering a speaker improves sq FACT

In response to Darmain, then YES she is very throttle happy with the volume, and the sound is distorted to buggery.

In her old car the system was set up properly with external amps hooked to matching speakers which gave the volume without distortion.

As the old speakers wont fit behind the panels and I refuse to cut the interior about, I was hoping to find some better quality speakers that wont distort so easily.


The head unit, as you probably guessed is not the factory original but an Alpine unit which quotes 50W max per channel.

im putting 150 wrms into each of my standard speakers without an issue..... its highly unlikely to kill a speaker from head unit power alone unless there is a fault with the head unit (most likely) - - if anything the tweetewrs would die before the drivers........

has at any stage the head unit been attached to an external amp with without an earth lead attached to the amp?

Sean said:

yer not painting a good image there .........

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Dont panic...Im nearly 46....lol

blackjack381 said:

um sq aint effected by power domian - infact over powering a speaker improves sq FACT

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hang about you cant get away with comments like this without some sorta explanation - share the knowledge

darmain your wrong..... very worng infact just about all of the facts in your post were wrong lol..
please dont ask me to explain it will take ages lol

righty then, here goes........

a speaker relies effectively on an AC current in order to work, as polarity of the current changes the cone moves and the sound is produced at whatever freqency the current is pushed into the speaker.....

recommended power ratings are given to provide a fairly even sound quality / reliability hence why its "recommended" to match the power of speakers to amplifier,,,

what this does not therefore take into account is a speakers actual thermal handling... if you put in a higher current you are therefore giving the speaker "extra power" which allows it to move more agressively giving sharper crisper tones therefore improving sound quality and punch... i could go into more depth regarding s/n ratios / efficiency being a larger factor but a bit pointless for this task..... (however efficiency is more important than power hence more power into a lower rated speaker gives the speaker higher efficiency thus making all round improvement if that makes sence...

give you an example

the atomic apxx 18" dvc sub requires a recommended minimum of 3000wrms for daily use, it can take 5000wrms for daily use and will sound a lot cleaner, hit harder and most importantly louder at 5k...... you can go up to 7k and so on however with car audio power supply is a pain in the ass of 3k so im not going into the logistics of that just yet..

a bit irrelivant the apxx however will actually take over 30'000wrms all be it for a short period of 3-5 seconds and this is for competition (db drag- a competition to get as loud as u can with car audio).. however one was tested plugged into the mains with a clamp meter and worked out approximatly 28'000wmrs and kept going till the guy got bored at which stage he cut the sub up and there was no damage to the coils... at 30000wrms you lose efficiency compared to say 7k due to heat (as with all electrical components) however it will work out substancially louder with 30k to 7k due to pure good old grunt!


ps. im a total car audio boff lol

so what yer saying is that it's ok to over run speakers on the basis that they will sound better ?

yes, just not silly amounts though,,,

generally 50-75wrms per speakers for stantard speakers is ample... just make sure when buying an amp you check rms figures not the bull**** maximum power,,,, also look for a high s/n ratio - anything over 94% is excellent (89 is ****)

if you can find one the pioneer gm-6000f is a good starting point 4 channel amp...


remember speakers will only sound as good as the sound you put it,, cheap amp / head unit = cheap sound,

This thread appears to have gone a bit "audiophile" - some interesting stuff, but it's not helping DVse with his speaker question.
Can I just ask (as FL speakers do have a tendency to get wet) did they all go at once? Do they still make a noise (distorted) or are they silent? Have you checked the speakers individually, i.e. condition of the woofers and connections (both at head unit and in door/panel).
Have the tweeters gone too? If they've all gone at once I'd suspect it's more likely to be a connection issue.
As to suitable replacements, I'd like to know too as I tried some that were on offer at Maplins - right diameter, but just too deep.
Cheers
N

u need to get some adaptor plates to change the speakers, u cant get speakers for them that just "slot in",,, that cures the depth issue too
i have a sneeking feeling autoleads make do them..... try Extreme Audio give them a call and ask for chris,

Another option could be the Harmon Kardon speakers (if the existing ones are standards, perhaps the HK ones would rate better?)
Ebay may be a suitable source.

I'm wrong am I. Oh well, I shan't bother in future. For the record, I'm a qualified electronics systems engineer whose been building sounds systems, including power amps and speaker enclosures for years..... Perhaps you might like to explain Sean and state your qualifications while you're at it.