Some facts ?

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C

Cyberwraith

Guest
Just been on the ABD (Association of British Drivers) website and found
these 'facts'.

FACTSHEET
Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on facts
(mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:

CONGESTION - 4x4s are insignificant contributors to congestion and those
that do sit in jams actually improve matters!
a.. Unlike their US counterparts, European 4x4s have a smaller 'footprint'
on the road than similarly priced saloons. A Range Rover is 20cm shorter
than a Mercedes S class, and a Toyota RAV4 is a massive 47cm shorter than a
Ford Mondeo!
b.. 4x4 vehicles account for only 3% of the cars on the road - that means
that in London there are three times as many buses and fifteen times as many
taxis entering the central area every day than 4x4s (figures from TfL)
FUEL CONSUMPTION & USAGE - 4x4s in the UK are very different from those in
the US. There is already a big incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles
(called fuel duty) and most people opt for the most economical 4x4s.
a.. Fuel consumption figures for 4x4s vary greatly, but the vast majority
sold in the UK are diesel engined and do between 25 and 42mpg - they are
comparable to family saloons not '12mpg gas guzzlers'
b.. Luxury 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK average 27.4mpg according to Spyder
Automotive, comparing well with the 28.4mpg achieved by luxury saloons and
27mpg for premium sports cars.
c.. The Honda CRV 2.2d manages 42 mpg combined, the seven seat Discovery
TDV6 does 30mpg. The new Lexus RX400h hybrid delivers 32mpg despite having a
powerful petrol engine and automatic transmission.
d.. 4x4s that do consume more fuel than average also have drivers that
already pay more fuel duty, because over 70% of the price of fuel is tax.
This is the biggest incentive to restrict sales of these vehicles, and its
working. The Land Rover Discovery is the best selling heavy duty 4x4 and 99%
of buyers opt for the 30mpg diesel rather than the petrol engined models
featured in the publicity material of the anti 4x4 groups
e.. A fairer comparison on fuel consumption would take into account usage
annual mileage - many 4x4s are used for towing and carrying whilst longer
trips are made by the second family car.
f.. A 4x4 can provide transport for up to 9 people at a time (Defender 110
Station Wagon)
g.. Older petrol engined 4x4s invariably either do a very low annual
mileage or are converted to environmentally friendly LPG. These are usually
bought due to real customer need - off road use or heavy duty towing.
TAXATION - special taxes on 4x4s would be unfair on those who really need
them - and, anyway, what is a 4x4?
a.. The Environment Transport Agency says that drivers have been hit too
hard by the carbon debate
b.. Other forms of taxation on 4x4s (higher VED or congestion charge)
would be less fair than fuel duty and they would penalise:
- essential users like farmers along with urban dwellers
- those who do a low mileage and so dont burn much fuel
- those who choose a more economical 4x4

c.. Transport for London recently admitted that they could not define a
4x4 robustly. There are many 4x4 cars on the road, like the Jaguar X TYPE
and the Audi Quattro models. Equally, some 4x4 models like the Nissan
X-Trail are available with front wheel drive only.
SAFETY - 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost
less to insure - increasingly they are packed with technology that makes
them even safer
a.. All types of car will have to meet the same stringent pedestrian
impact tests (new models from 2006, all cars from 2011). The Honda CR-V (the
second best selling 4x4 in the UK) already achieves the top rated NCAP 3
star rating for pedestrian safety
b.. DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger
killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light
Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions and
driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles on the
road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries.
c.. Arguments about weight in car to car impacts could equally apply to
all cars - a new VW Golf GTI weighs twice as much as the 1970's original,
largely due to better crash performance and increased safety features.
d.. 4 wheel drive makes cars safer in poor road conditions, and the higher
driving position of SUVs gives a better view of the road ahead, which is the
most crucial accident avoidance measure of all
e.. Most of the more expensive 4x4s are now fitted with parking sensors
that aid manoeuvring in tight spaces, reducing the risk of hitting low
objects ­ like children - close to the vehicle
f.. 4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced
saloons indicating a better safety record


 
In article <[email protected]>, Cyberwraith
<[email protected]> writes
>Just been on the ABD (Association of British Drivers) website and found
>these 'facts'.
>


First rule of tabloid journalism : never let the facts get in the way of
a good story

Second rule of tabloid journalism : never do any research if there is
less than 6 months to the press date.


Adrian
--
To Reply :
replace "news" with "adrian" and "nospam" with "ffoil"
Sorry for the rigmarole, If I want spam, I'll go to the shops
Every time someone says "I don't believe in trolls", another one dies.
 
Don't forget that some 4X4's are not permanent 4wd anyway and are 2wd on the
road.

Larry
--
Series 3 Rust and Holes

"Cyberwraith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just been on the ABD (Association of British Drivers) website and found
> these 'facts'.
>
> FACTSHEET
> Anti-4x4 ranters are typically heavy on emotive claptrap and short on
> facts (mainly because they haven't got any facts), so here are some facts:
>
> CONGESTION - 4x4s are insignificant contributors to congestion and those
> that do sit in jams actually improve matters!
> a.. Unlike their US counterparts, European 4x4s have a smaller
> 'footprint' on the road than similarly priced saloons. A Range Rover is
> 20cm shorter than a Mercedes S class, and a Toyota RAV4 is a massive 47cm
> shorter than a Ford Mondeo!
> b.. 4x4 vehicles account for only 3% of the cars on the road - that means
> that in London there are three times as many buses and fifteen times as
> many taxis entering the central area every day than 4x4s (figures from
> TfL)
> FUEL CONSUMPTION & USAGE - 4x4s in the UK are very different from those in
> the US. There is already a big incentive to buy fuel efficient vehicles
> (called fuel duty) and most people opt for the most economical 4x4s.
> a.. Fuel consumption figures for 4x4s vary greatly, but the vast majority
> sold in the UK are diesel engined and do between 25 and 42mpg - they are
> comparable to family saloons not '12mpg gas guzzlers'
> b.. Luxury 4x4 vehicles sold in the UK average 27.4mpg according to
> Spyder Automotive, comparing well with the 28.4mpg achieved by luxury
> saloons and 27mpg for premium sports cars.
> c.. The Honda CRV 2.2d manages 42 mpg combined, the seven seat Discovery
> TDV6 does 30mpg. The new Lexus RX400h hybrid delivers 32mpg despite having
> a powerful petrol engine and automatic transmission.
> d.. 4x4s that do consume more fuel than average also have drivers that
> already pay more fuel duty, because over 70% of the price of fuel is tax.
> This is the biggest incentive to restrict sales of these vehicles, and its
> working. The Land Rover Discovery is the best selling heavy duty 4x4 and
> 99% of buyers opt for the 30mpg diesel rather than the petrol engined
> models featured in the publicity material of the anti 4x4 groups
> e.. A fairer comparison on fuel consumption would take into account usage
> annual mileage - many 4x4s are used for towing and carrying whilst longer
> trips are made by the second family car.
> f.. A 4x4 can provide transport for up to 9 people at a time (Defender
> 110 Station Wagon)
> g.. Older petrol engined 4x4s invariably either do a very low annual
> mileage or are converted to environmentally friendly LPG. These are
> usually bought due to real customer need - off road use or heavy duty
> towing.
> TAXATION - special taxes on 4x4s would be unfair on those who really need
> them - and, anyway, what is a 4x4?
> a.. The Environment Transport Agency says that drivers have been hit too
> hard by the carbon debate
> b.. Other forms of taxation on 4x4s (higher VED or congestion charge)
> would be less fair than fuel duty and they would penalise:
> - essential users like farmers along with urban dwellers
> - those who do a low mileage and so dont burn much fuel
> - those who choose a more economical 4x4
>
> c.. Transport for London recently admitted that they could not define a
> 4x4 robustly. There are many 4x4 cars on the road, like the Jaguar X TYPE
> and the Audi Quattro models. Equally, some 4x4 models like the Nissan
> X-Trail are available with front wheel drive only.
> SAFETY - 4x4s are inherently safer vehicles than normal cars and so cost
> less to insure - increasingly they are packed with technology that makes
> them even safer
> a.. All types of car will have to meet the same stringent pedestrian
> impact tests (new models from 2006, all cars from 2011). The Honda CR-V
> (the second best selling 4x4 in the UK) already achieves the top rated
> NCAP 3 star rating for pedestrian safety
> b.. DfT and Government Office statistics show that buses are bigger
> killers of pedestrians (per km driven) than all cars, and that Light
> Commercials typified by the Ford Transit, which have similar dimensions
> and driving positions to 4x4s, are actually the safest group of vehicles
> on the road in terms of pedestrian deaths and injuries.
> c.. Arguments about weight in car to car impacts could equally apply to
> all cars - a new VW Golf GTI weighs twice as much as the 1970's original,
> largely due to better crash performance and increased safety features.
> d.. 4 wheel drive makes cars safer in poor road conditions, and the
> higher driving position of SUVs gives a better view of the road ahead,
> which is the most crucial accident avoidance measure of all
> e.. Most of the more expensive 4x4s are now fitted with parking sensors
> that aid manoeuvring in tight spaces, reducing the risk of hitting low
> objects ­ like children - close to the vehicle
> f.. 4x4s typically have lower insurance groupings than similarly priced
> saloons indicating a better safety record
>
>



 

Agreed, but it is extremely obvious this government wants 4 x 4's off the
road. The first question has to be why? Are they just trying to divert the
publics attention from the state of the country in general. Also is the
continuing 'harrassment' of 4 x 4 drivers / owners bordering on persecution?
The 'reasons' given, that is environmental just do not hold water. If the
government was really trying to cut the damage done then start by simply
banning ALL large 'gas guzzlers'.(At this point I will state the mpg given
on the anti 4x4 site earlier is wrong for my Discovery. I get approx 25 - 27
mpg urban not the stated 22mpg. Yes I have e-mailed them with this info).
You know the cars I mean, Roll Royce, Mercedes, Lexus, to name a few. Then
what about vans, buses, and the numerous Black Cabs? No the anti 4 x 4
movement has nothing to do with the environment, what it is really about
though........ who knows. (Any answers please on a postcard and e-mailed
here ASAP). I constantly get asked why I drive my Disco. To start with why
should I have to defend my choice. In fact why should anyone. Smoking has
been banned, 4 x 4's are now being targeted, what is next?


 
Cyberwraith wrote:

|| Agreed, but it is extremely obvious this government wants 4 x 4's
|| off the road. The first question has to be why?

1. Perceived to be owned by posh people, therefore a legitimate target for
the old class warriors in NL, and also the NL Tories who need to keep the
Marxists sweet by throwing them a fish or two between elections. Viz the
hunting "debate".

2. Owned by a minority, including farmers (eeurgh), country sports people
(eeeeeuurgh) and rich people who send their children to private school
(eeeeeeeeeeuuuuurgh), therefore easy to set up as an Aunt Sally for everyone
to throw rocks at. Hitler knew all about this: set up a common enemy in
people's minds, and encourage everyone to make their opposition vocal. It
will take their minds off the other stuff that's going on that the Govt
would rather you didn't think about. Iraq, the NHS and cash-for-honours
come to mind, amongst many others.

And to correct your original statement (if I may), they don't want them off
the road, they want them on the road, but vilified, and paying through the
nose.

--
Rich
==============================

Take out the obvious to email me.


 
On or around Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:14:39 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>herefore easy to set up as an Aunt Sally for everyone
>to throw rocks at.


Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone anyone
until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this absolutely
clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
 
On 2006-10-29, Austin Shackles <[email protected]> wrote:

> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone anyone
> until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this absolutely
> clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."


Heh. I wonder how many people in this group are women pretending to be men?

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
Austin Shackles wrote:
> On or around Sun, 29 Oct 2006 19:14:39 -0000, "Richard Brookman"
> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>
>> herefore easy to set up as an Aunt Sally for everyone
>> to throw rocks at.

>
> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone
> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this
> absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."


No, I'm, Brian........

--
Ta!

Nige

Subaru WRX (54)
Land Rover Turbo Diesel 110 (G)
KTM 520 SX (2001)
Kawasaki ZZR 1100 (1995)


 
On 2006-10-29, Nige <[email protected]> wrote:

>> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone
>> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this
>> absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."

>
> No, I'm, Brian........


I'm from the Judean People's Front..

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 

"Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2006-10-29, Nige <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone
>>> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this
>>> absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."

>>
>> No, I'm, Brian........

>
> I'm from the Judean People's Front..
>
> --
> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!


I'm from the People Front of Judea AND my name is Brian!!


 
Cyberwraith <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
> "Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 2006-10-29, Nige <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone
>>>> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this
>>>> absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."
>>>
>>> No, I'm, Brian........

>>
>> I'm from the Judean People's Front..
>>
>> --
>> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

>
> I'm from the People Front of Judea AND my name is Brian!!


I had you down as being with the Popular peoples front of Judea.... traitor!

:)


 

"Lee_D" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Cyberwraith <[email protected]> uttered summat worrerz funny about:
>> "Ian Rawlings" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 2006-10-29, Nige <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Stop that. Stop it, will you stop that. Now look, no one is stone
>>>>> anyone until I blow this whistle. *Even*...and I want to make this
>>>>> absolutely clear...*even* if they *do* say "Jehovah."
>>>>
>>>> No, I'm, Brian........
>>>
>>> I'm from the Judean People's Front..
>>>
>>> --
>>> Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!

>>
>> I'm from the People Front of Judea AND my name is Brian!!

>
> I had you down as being with the Popular peoples front of Judea....
> traitor!
>
> :)
>

Don't mention the Popular Peoples Front of Judea!!! They are splitters!!
JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH. bet HE WAS LEFT ALONE WITH HIS 4 X 4


 
On 2006-10-30, Cyberwraith <[email protected]> wrote:

> Don't mention the Popular Peoples Front of Judea!!! They are splitters!!
> JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH, JEHOVAH. bet HE WAS LEFT ALONE WITH HIS 4 X 4


Sshhh!!! Don't say 4x4!

--
Blast off and strike the evil Bydo empire!
 
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