Classic Sluggish cold start. Help please.

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frog hopper

frog hopper

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1988 2.4 VM. The old girl is getting more and more difficult to start as the weather starts to get colder. As I have been used to 200Tdi's I may not know how to start the thing if that makes sense.
Turn key to activate glow plugs, wait until glow plug light goes out on dash and turn the key to activate starter motor, up to this point I have not touched the throttle, just depress the clutch pedal. If the temperature is down to about freezing it will take at least 6 or 7 seconds of cranking before she catches and fires up, is this right for this engine?
I have changed all the glowplugs, cleaned and greased with copperslip all electrical joints.
I put my multi meter onto the feed tag where it joins the glowplug connections, the earth probe onto the battery negative post, when plugs are activated I am getting between 10.7 and 11 volts, the batteries are past the first flush of youth but are "reasonable".
I have tried giving a double dose on the glowplugs but that doesn't seem to make any difference.
I had a good trawl through my Brooklands manual but it doesn't give much detail on the VM other than setting the "Cold Start Advance" (RTC5624) the recommended gap in the mechanism is 3-4mm, mine was at 5mm so reset it to 3.5mm, this has made no difference. To be honest I'm not sure the cold start is working, does anyone know how I can check this unit?
Sorry for the extra long post, just trying to include as much detail as possible.
 
On my vm you would turn the key to position II etc

Wait for the glowplug light to go out but IMO the glow plug light goes out too early, i found if you wait longer you will hear an audible "click"

then it would fire right up!

I had basically the same car!!

Shire blue 1989 Vm powered classic!!
 
As it gets colder, batteries are less efficient at what they do, if its not fully charged or and old battery it will struggle more in the cold winter night/days
 
Also to make sure you get a good conection between the battery and the leads, put some battery terminal grease on them so it makes better contact, (not grease though it flammable or patrolium gel)
 
Twin batteries on the vm, are they the same capacities. Don't know if different capacities will upset the split charging system.I used to change mine in pairs.
 
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Some good comments there guys, didn't realise the light went out before the glows had finished heating up. I shall put both batteries on charge to make sure they are both tip top and then give it a go.
The batteries are old but I was rather hoping they would get me through this winter, I've already spent quite a lot on this motor this year.
I presume to get the injectors checked I send them off to a diesel specialist and wait for a sharp intake of breath.? will have a look in the phone book tomorrow.
 
Dopey said:
sort the cheap stuff out first before you spend ££ it might just be low on the power.... battery should be 12.4 for a good un
Click to expand...
Thanks, I agree, sometimes I do tend to go off half cock. Just realised I have a spare engine sitting in a mates garage, could always try swapping out the injectors from that if the battery charging makes no difference, there is more than likely a cold start module on it that might work.
Lets just call it an age thing, and its my bedtime anorl.
 
If I remember correctly the cold start module only picks the tick over up, went mad and bought a new one when I had 89 classic VM it was some thing like £100 about 15 years ago, when the engine died (head gaskets) I put a 200 tdi in it and just got into the habit of giving it bit of throttle on start up to stop it shaking the car till it warmed up a bit.
 
Find your local diesel man, he can check the injectors, set dry seat clean nozzles all for a few euros.
Your units can be striped and rebuilt by a 6year old, it’s the setting and testing which requires a bit of kit.
 
frog hopper said:
Thanks, I agree, sometimes I do tend to go off half cock. Just realised I have a spare engine sitting in a mates garage, could always try swapping out the injectors from that if the battery charging makes no difference, there is more than likely a cold start module on it that might work.
Lets just call it an age thing, and its my bedtime anorl.
Click to expand...
Check the batteries, that the glow plugs have power then compressions. You can almost run those old engines by pouring diesel down the air intake.so leave the injectors till last.
 
Right, checked the batteries this morning by taking off the + lead and putting a meter across the terminals on each in turn, 12.4 v on both. I do know this is not a full test of a batteries performance, but it's the best I can do.
Started the car by holding the key in position for the glows to activate with the door open and bonnet open so I could listen for the click as the timer gets full cycle, It must have been at least 10 seconds after the tell tale light on the dash went out, turned key to start and she fired up as quick as at any time in the past, probably 1 second of cranking. Now this morning it was definetley 5 or 6 deg C warmer so that would have some effect, but she did start as if was a summer day. :):)
With the motor now running I put the meter on the battery posts and got a reading of 13.9 - 14.0 v, this was on tickover so I presume thats ok.
Im hoping that I have now learnt how to start it:oops:, if I have more problems as it gets colder again I shall take her down to the local garage and ask them to check the batteries with the proper kit.
Very many thanks to all that have helped. :):):)
 
frog hopper said:
Right, checked the batteries this morning by taking off the + lead and putting a meter across the terminals on each in turn, 12.4 v on both. I do know this is not a full test of a batteries performance, but it's the best I can do.
Started the car by holding the key in position for the glows to activate with the door open and bonnet open so I could listen for the click as the timer gets full cycle, It must have been at least 10 seconds after the tell tale light on the dash went out, turned key to start and she fired up as quick as at any time in the past, probably 1 second of cranking. Now this morning it was definetley 5 or 6 deg C warmer so that would have some effect, but she did start as if was a summer day. :):)
With the motor now running I put the meter on the battery posts and got a reading of 13.9 - 14.0 v, this was on tickover so I presume thats ok.
Im hoping that I have now learnt how to start it:oops:, if I have more problems as it gets colder again I shall take her down to the local garage and ask them to check the batteries with the proper kit.
Very many thanks to all that have helped. :):):)
Click to expand...


As i said in the post above, the glow plug light seems to go out too early!!

Its all part of Vm ownership lol :);)
 
funrover said:
As i said in the post above, the glow plug light seems to go out too early!!

Its all part of Vm ownership lol :);)
Click to expand...
I must admit as I was doing it I was thinking this was just taking sooo long, am I going to break/burn something, then as you said I heard the click and fired her up.
It's something I would never have found out on my own, so thanks again. Hope its now sorted, after the expense of a new set of glows and most of a day struggling to fit the little buggers behind the injection pump. DOH. :confused::confused:
 
frog hopper said:
I must admit as I was doing it I was thinking this was just taking sooo long, am I going to break/burn something, then as you said I heard the click and fired her up.
It's something I would never have found out on my own, so thanks again. Hope its now sorted, after the expense of a new set of glows and most of a day struggling to fit the little buggers behind the injection pump. DOH. :confused::confused:
Click to expand...


Funnily enough i found out by accident as well lol

My classic never started easily at anything below 10c

i replaced the glow plugs, injectors, headgaskets both batteries etc etc

it turned out while leaving the key on for a few seconds longer than normal you would hear this click!

Turned oot it was the glow plug module of sumpfink completing its cycle :p


:EDIT:

Big batteries are a must on the VM.

When i first got mine, she was fitted with 2x 660cca 72ah batteries not adequate i found out in the middle of nowhere with a 3t trailer with extra lights lol

i put 2 110ah 1200cca batteries and it helped her cold starting and accessories ran better with less lug on the engine!
 
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funrover said:
Funnily enough i found out by accident as well lol

My classic never started easily at anything below 10c

i replaced the glow plugs, injectors, headgaskets both batteries etc etc

it turned out while leaving the key on for a few seconds longer than normal you would hear this click!

Turned oot it was the glow plug module of sumpfink completing its cycle :p
Click to expand...
:D:D:D:D I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I love living where we do BUT as far as landrover ownership is concerned two big problems for me are, not being able to just have a chat over a beer with other owners like you would in a UK owners club, and when I do find I need summat it's pretty well impossible to find one to strip in a scrapyard.:(:(
I suppose thats the downside of owning a rare and exotic vehicle.:p:p:p
 
frog hopper said:
:D:D:D:D I'm glad I'm not the only one.
I love living where we do BUT as far as landrover ownership is concerned two big problems for me are, not being able to just have a chat over a beer with other owners like you would in a UK owners club, and when I do find I need summat it's pretty well impossible to find one to strip in a scrapyard.:(:(
I suppose thats the downside of owning a rare and exotic vehicle.:p:p:p
Click to expand...

The Vm powered classic was a rare sight in the 2000s tbf

i bought mine in early 2002 from a franchise dealer for £4995.
After owning it for a few months the inevitable Headgaskets went, along with the injectors and glow plugs.

this is when i realised how hard it was to get parts for the VM lump!

paddock spares mags at the time didn't stock any Vm parts
britpart headgaskets turned out to be the wrong size :eek: as usual!!

The Headgaskets i got from a landrover dealer "new old stock"

glow plugs i found out of a low mileage wrecker

injectors were agin new old stock items from a local dealer.


she was off the road for 2 months lol

now of course i didn't have a computer at the time, so magazines and the phone were my only options :D

Even after these shortcomings the Vm unit still remains my favourite diesel engine used in the classic.
If maintained it'll live forever :D

+ even the smallest 2.4 will out power the 2-300tdi !! ;)
 
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