Series 3 2.25 diesel glow plug upgraded help.

Ric82 · Mar 7, 2022

Bobsticle said:
1. Crack off the 8 high pressure pipe nuts.

2. Centre the pump on the pointer after loosening the three pump nuts.

3. Tighten the 8 nuts, tighten the pump nuts.

4. Start by any means possible.

5. Check smoke.

6. Repeat all above in 1mm increments until smoke stops, starts easily or you have a mild mental breakdown and set fire to it.

It’s a long slog but every mm has to be explored or you can miss it. With any luck it will begin getting better before you then get worse again. At least you then know how to get close.
If it won’t improve sufficiently and you know for certain the static pump timing was spot on then it’s probably down to a stretched chain.
May also be worth doing a pop test on the injectors along with a pattern check at the same time.

Just wait till you’ve spent weeks doing all this and still can’t get there. It drives you mad Been through it twice with mine. The last time after a complete engine rebuild.

Thanks Bob what I don't get it with a little spray of brake cleaner it's starts straight up and runs a treat (excluding the white ish smoke). All I have done is had injectors redone and fuel injection pump and from taking it off to refitting a exchanged pump nothing had changed or turned.

The only other thing is I changed the lift pump as thought it would be a good idea while I was there. I ruled this out as an issue because it runs once it started but could this be an issue for why it won't start off the starter?

Old pump worked well just leaked diesel out hence the replacement.

It's really doing my nut in as it must be simple.
Thanks
Richard

Ric82 · Mar 7, 2022

Other thing to add is I dropped the oil and filter at the weekend and replaced it with nice new oils and filter after 10 minutes of running the oils was still nice and clean with that cold shine no black which makes me think it's not leaking diesel past the rings.

When running it revs up no issues and there is no rattling coming from timing chain area.

Thanks

Bobsticle · Mar 7, 2022

Ric82 said:
Other thing to add is I dropped the oil and filter at the weekend and replaced it with nice new oils and filter after 10 minutes of running the oils was still nice and clean with that cold shine no black which makes me think it's not leaking diesel past the rings.

When running it revs up no issues and there is no rattling coming from timing chain area.

Thanks

Unfortunately it’s trial and error with these old lumps. The engine was first designed before the Land Rover and was originally a petrol. The boffins changed the head and fitted a pump on the distributor drive and the diesel version was born.
I honestly like mine but most want the extra 3 horse power from the petrol version. It’s never bothered me. If I had wanted speed I’d have gone for anything but a series.

Keep at it and it’ll come together. It’s just a right royal faff.

It is worth having a look at the static timing if all else fails. Turn the enjin clockwise until number one tappet is almost fully up (valve closed) then look through the window on the bell housing.
As the TDC line comes into view at the bottom of the window the mark on the flywheel for static pump timing should be about 2 inches before it. It’s about 14 degrees before TDC. This varies with model apparently.
You can then pop the pump off and make sure the master spline (the thick one) is at 20 degrees from parallel to the cam. About 4 o clock if 12 is nearest the cam.

Like I say this may not be necessary but if all else fails you may not have a choice.

Ric82 · Mar 14, 2022

Hi Guys im a bit embarrassed but at the weekend I went to do a Compression test (Which didn't fit the glow plug hole) so I thought while I'm at it I will test the glow plugs while out the engine (Previous test was in the engine) and out of 4 glow plugs 1 didn't work at all and another had high resistance but worked (These two was wet on removal) cylinder 1 and 4 both worked and was dry on removal) I suspect this might be why it not starting. :-( (Rookie mistake)

So the next question can someone recommend a 12v glow plug for the 2.25 series 3 diesel that would fit that's not Brit part?

Many Thanks
Richard

Bobsticle · Mar 15, 2022

Ric82 said:
Hi Guys im a bit embarrassed but at the weekend I went to do a Compression test (Which didn't fit the glow plug hole) so I thought while I'm at it I will test the glow plugs while out the engine (Previous test was in the engine) and out of 4 glow plugs 1 didn't work at all and another had high resistance but worked (These two was wet on removal) cylinder 1 and 4 both worked and was dry on removal) I suspect this might be why it not starting. :-( (Rookie mistake)

So the next question can someone recommend a 12v glow plug for the 2.25 series 3 diesel that would fit that's not Brit part?

Many Thanks
Richard

They are all a made up plug unfortunately. The big manufacturers don’t have a part number for them and we have to rely on Land Rover suppliers to have them cobbled together.
With most on line retailers realising that we try to avoid britpart, they go to some lengths to hide the source. We rarely know until the blue box turns up at the door. Your better speaking to a supplier and asking the question while they undoubtedly give you the spiel of shame.

Start with someone like Turner Engineering as they have probably the best reputation for quality.

Ric82 · Mar 15, 2022

Good evening all

So tonight I did a compression test with another tester I managed to get hold of and I'm getting the below results

Cylinder 1 = 300 psi
Cylinder 2 = 300 psi
Cylinder 3 = 290 psi
Cylinder 4 = 290 psi

I'm not sure of these are good or not so any advise would be appreciated.

I have installed some new G101 12v glow plugs and still won't start.

I think next is to take the pump back off and check timing but what I'm confused about is why it run with abit of brake cleaner down the intake and no issues other then the smoke.

Many Thanks
Richard

Ric82 · Mar 15, 2022

Also forgot to mention this was with the butterfly valve shut as I forget to hold it open so I suspect they could actually be abit higher. It was also a dry test.

Thanks
Richard

steve2286w · Mar 15, 2022

The book says about 450psi, when I did mine I recall about 330 psi , it’s good they are all similar with no large differences, but maybe a bit low, but is gauge accurate , and would squirt of oil increase it be interesting to see if butterfly open increases it too, never used brake cleaner before.

Ric82 · Mar 15, 2022

Yeah the brake cleaner in the intake and it will start right up no issues. I'm starting to go crazy with this. How much diesel should I get out the injector pipes as if I open number 1 and spin the engine I get a little drip and it is only little. But it will run once I spray abit of brake cleaner but could this be a pump issue as it all started since the pump and injector refurb.

Thank
Richard

steve2286w · Mar 15, 2022

Ric82 said:
I have installed some new G101 12v glow plugs and still won't start.

did you remember to disconnect the earth near no 1 cylinder

, mine did need a lot help to get going 20 secs heater plugs and 20 secs cranking pedal down ? , have you connected injectors out of engine to check spray pattern

And checked what bobbysticle said

steve2286w · Mar 15, 2022

I wouldn’t bother with what comes out of pipes but with the on vehicle test as below as you want to see a spray not a squirt coming out of injector, keep distance away from spray , wear goggles etc

Ric82 · Mar 15, 2022

steve2286w said:
did you remember to disconnect the earth near no 1 cylinder , mine did need a lot help to get going 20 secs heater plugs and 20 secs cranking pedal down ? , have you connected injectors out of engine to check spray pattern

And checked what bobbysticle said

Not checked the spary pattern as I have just had them all refurbed along with the pump. I'm sure the no smoke out the exhaust when it's cranking is part of the issue as before the pump and injectors where done it puffed blue smoke as it was cranking abit.

Only reason I had the pump done was it leaked but instead of repairing he replaced it as said the other options would be more costly as it was warn, and I thought I would get the injectors done at the same time.

I wish now I just left the pump and injectors alone as it at least started and ran before.

Ric82 · Mar 19, 2022

Ok so today I check all valve clearance and adjusted but to be fair it was a NATS hair of adjustment,. Then I set the engine to compression stroke on number 1 and the flywheel to 13 degrees and refitted pump the little pump shaft notch out was at 180 and the master spline was at 20 degress. Sat pump on bleed pipe through and tried to start still nothing not even abit of smoke out the exhaust. Fitted new battery as the other was giving up spins alot faster but still nothing.

I had fuel out the injector pipes on all 4 and if I take the glow plug power off and crank the engine they have a fine mist of diesel not soaking but it's there if you run your finger on them.

After bolting the pump on a took the inspection cover off and turned the pump until the line inside lined up with the edge of the circlip.

So can I ask what do you all think is next? It was running prior to fuel pump exchange and injectors rebuilt.

Many thanks
Richard

steve2286w · Mar 19, 2022

Have a search on the forum for diesel not starting, somebody will have been there before with your prob. , is the pick up pipe in tank clear and dies lift pump give a healthy squirt if you disconnect the pipe to filter

Tall Ratbag · Mar 20, 2022

Ric82 said:
Good evening all

So tonight I did a compression test with another tester I managed to get hold of and I'm getting the below results

Cylinder 1 = 300 psi
Cylinder 2 = 300 psi
Cylinder 3 = 290 psi
Cylinder 4 = 290 psi

Using these figures, I've estimated that the corresponding compression temperatures are just over 500 Kelvin. The self ignition temperature of the diesel spray is about 530K. So, the calculation explains why your engine doesn't start, but, when you help it with something more volatile, you can get the engine to run.

Ric82 · Mar 20, 2022

steve2286w said:
Have a search on the forum for diesel not starting, somebody will have been there before with your prob. , is the pick up pipe in tank clear and dies lift pump give a healthy squirt if you disconnect the pipe to filter

Yeah I thought about that yesterday so disconnected the inlet on the pump and cranked the engine and it pored out in to the cup.

Thanks
Ric

Ric82 · Mar 20, 2022

Tall Ratbag said:
Using these figures, I've estimated that the corresponding compression temperatures are just over 500 Kelvin. The self ignition temperature of the diesel spray is about 530K. So, the calculation explains why your engine doesn't start, but, when you help it with something more volatile, you can get the engine to run.

Would the injector and pump exchange affected this as prior to the pump exchange it did start off the key.

How much fuel should come out the injector pumps as if I crank it over I only get a very very small amount littrely a dripping at best.

Bobsticle · Mar 20, 2022

Ric82 said:
Would the injector and pump exchange affected this as prior to the pump exchange it did start off the key.

How much fuel should come out the injector pumps as if I crank it over I only get a very very small amount littrely a dripping at best.

Very little at the injector end. I was getting a five pence sized smudge on a dry rag. Have you got access to a pop tester. I believe the injectors are refurbished but they might have been set wrongly or not set at all. Bit costly for a one off test.
I have one but I’m not sure where you are.

Ric82 · Mar 20, 2022

Hi Bob

I live in Boston Lincolnshire, that's an interesting comment as I did ask the diesel guy and he said they was set a fraction higher then the book as he said in his experience they run better like that. I didn't question as he knows more then me.

Thanks
Richard

Bobsticle · Mar 20, 2022

Ric82 said:
Hi Bob

I live in Boston Lincolnshire, that's an interesting comment as I did ask the diesel guy and he said they was set a fraction higher then the book as he said in his experience they run better like that. I didn't question as he knows more then me.

Thanks
Richard

To change the pop pressure you adjust the fat end cap on the injector. It simply increases or decreases the pressure on the internal spring. I would suggest if it’s squirting when out of the head then it should fire once bolted back in there. The tolerances on these old motors are pretty lax.
If you have fuel and compression they will usually at least run if only badly.
I’ve just sent my pump off for a service but even though it was leaking quite a lot of fuel it still fired and ran.

Series 3 2.25 diesel glow plug upgraded help.

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