Sand Driving ?

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B

blewyn

Guest
I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.

Cheers,

Blewyn
 
"blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
: I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
: for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
: group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
: a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.
:
: Cheers,
:
: Blewyn

Last time I was there, at first - we just watched the locals. Note the
type of surface they drive on, and the types they avoid. Saw the
most amazing pieces of 2wd junk cruising out there, barely leaving
any tracks at all. Seemed that most of the ground was pretty solid.
Another rule of thumb was that if the sand was too soft to walk
on (ankle deep or deeper), wait for some other fool to drive on it.
First time I stuck a floatation-tire'd military jeep, I found that the
sand was mid-calf deep dust/powder, and the walk-out damn
near killed me.

Dave
Desert Rat/Yom Kippur October 1973


 
blewyn wrote:
>
> I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
> for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
> group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
> a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.

I have some info on sand driving below:
http://4crawler.cruiserpages.com/4x4/index.shtml

4WD and air the tires down.

--
Roger
 

"Roger Brown" <[email protected]> wrote

> 4WD and air the tires down.
>

8-16 psi should do, make sure you have a tire pump in the truck, so when you
get back to the solid road you can inflate them back to road pressure.

rhys


 


Roger Brown wrote:
> blewyn wrote:
>
>>I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
>>for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
>>group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
>>a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.
>
>
> I have some info on sand driving below:
> http://4crawler.cruiserpages.com/4x4/index.shtml
>
> 4WD and air the tires down.
>
what you're looking for is a big footprint, big wide tires aired down to
10 or 15 psi, and whatever you do, don't EVER spin your wheels.

--
Ben Jerew
ASE Master Technician
New Country Lexus of Latham, NY
Amateur Off-Roader

 
Approximately 10/28/03 15:58, MudPuppy1976 <"moc.rr.pacyn"@67lamina
uttered for posterity:

>
> Roger Brown wrote:
>> blewyn wrote:
>>
>>>I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
>>>for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
>>>group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
>>>a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.
>>
>>
>> I have some info on sand driving below:
>> http://4crawler.cruiserpages.com/4x4/index.shtml
>>
>> 4WD and air the tires down.
>>
> what you're looking for is a big footprint, big wide tires aired down to
> 10 or 15 psi, and whatever you do, don't EVER spin your wheels.

Or try to turn sharply, which can also cause the tires to bury
themselves.

--
My governor can kick your governor's ass

 
Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :

4WD or 2WD ?

I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh windblown
sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.

What do you think ?

Cheers,

Blewyn
 

"blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :
>
> 4WD or 2WD ?
>
> I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
> as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
> tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh windblown
> sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.
>
> What do you think ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Blewyn

Dusty gravel roads here I use 4wd. same on the beach access track I use to
pick up sand for concrete. But then, I'm not where you are, ask around
veteran local sand drivers. especially ask locals born in the area who drive
there all the time.

For sand driving it's best to have fairly low amounts of tread, more tread
just makes it more likely to dig holes than skim across the surface.

rhys


 
rnf2 wrote:
> "blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :
>>
>> 4WD or 2WD ?
>>
>> I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
>> as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
>> tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh
>> windblown sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.
>>
>> What do you think ?
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Blewyn
>
> Dusty gravel roads here I use 4wd. same on the beach access track I
> use to pick up sand for concrete. But then, I'm not where you are,
> ask around veteran local sand drivers. especially ask locals born in
> the area who drive there all the time.
>
> For sand driving it's best to have fairly low amounts of tread, more
> tread just makes it more likely to dig holes than skim across the
> surface.
>
> rhys

And if you can, get a set of Michelin XS Sahara tyres fitted - they are
specialist sand tyres and their advantage over normal tyres has to be seen
to be believed.

--
Julian
---------
= Pretentious Sig required =


 
Your boss knows what he is talking about.

Even in the city on snow covered streets, dropping to 2 wheel drive when
turning at an intersection makes the turn much easier.

When in 4 wd, one tire has to scuff going around a corner, this can make
the tire get up on top and just slide straight.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's

blewyn wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :
>
> 4WD or 2WD ?
>
> I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
> as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
> tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh windblown
> sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.
>
> What do you think ?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Blewyn
 
Well, first of all a Lancruiser is full time 4WD, theve come like that for
at least the last 10 years. The option u have is to lock the center diff or
not. U can leave it unlocked untill u get stuck. Nissan Patrol's have the
option of being in 2WD or 4WD. I'd recommend the new 4.8 liter 5 speed auto
combo for sand. However it's not really an option since u already said u
have a Cruiser...

Adam

"blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
> for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
> group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
> a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Blewyn


 
Hi Blewyn,

Are you bragging or complaining?

Your best option is 4x4 at all times, HR or LR depending on the terrain.

Regards

Albert


"blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
> for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
> group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
> a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Blewyn


 
> Hi Blewyn,
>
> Are you bragging or complaining?
>
> Your best option is 4x4 at all times, HR or LR depending on the terrain.
>
> Regards
>
> Albert

Albert,

It's not a complaint because it's quite good fun to drive in the
desert.....and it's not a brag because, well, it's hardly worth
bragging about. LOTS of people over here drive on sand every day...

Blewyn
 
Not so. My Landcruiser has both a 2wd-4wd stick shift AND a a centre
diff lock switch. And it states quite clearly in the manual that the
vehicle is to be driven in two-wheel drive when on dry road.

Blewyn


"Adam Krawczyk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Well, first of all a Lancruiser is full time 4WD, theve come like that for
> at least the last 10 years. The option u have is to lock the center diff or
> not. U can leave it unlocked untill u get stuck. Nissan Patrol's have the
> option of being in 2WD or 4WD. I'd recommend the new 4.8 liter 5 speed auto
> combo for sand. However it's not really an option since u already said u
> have a Cruiser...
>
> Adam
>
> "blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I've just moved to Saudi, and will be expected to drive in the desert
> > for some distance to reach remote oil installations. What is the
> > group's sand driving advice ? Should I be in 4WD or 2WD ? I'm driving
> > a Toyota Landcruiser 2002 model.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Blewyn
 
Good point Mike, but don't 4WD vehicles generally have a diff on the
axles to prevent this scuffing ? (when unlocked)

Blewyn


Mike Romain <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Your boss knows what he is talking about.
>
> Even in the city on snow covered streets, dropping to 2 wheel drive when
> turning at an intersection makes the turn much easier.
>
> When in 4 wd, one tire has to scuff going around a corner, this can make
> the tire get up on top and just slide straight.
>
> Mike
> 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
>
> blewyn wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :
> >
> > 4WD or 2WD ?
> >
> > I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
> > as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
> > tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh windblown
> > sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.
> >
> > What do you think ?
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Blewyn
 
He's not talking so much about the two front wheels turnign at different
speeds, as the front wheels as a pair turning at different speeds to the
rear wheels. A 2WD/4WD with a selection lever has a fixed transfer case
where power is split fixedly at 50/50 front and rear, with front and rear
wheels turning at the same number of revolutions. but when turning a corner,
the front wheels have less distance to cover than the rear, yet the fixed
transfer case makes them turn the same number of times as the rear wheels,
hence the scuffing.
Permanent 4WD vehicles with a center diff are able to reconcile the front
and rear wheels turn when cornering.

HTH

rhys
"blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Good point Mike, but don't 4WD vehicles generally have a diff on the
> axles to prevent this scuffing ? (when unlocked)
>
> Blewyn
>
>
> Mike Romain <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Your boss knows what he is talking about.
> >
> > Even in the city on snow covered streets, dropping to 2 wheel drive when
> > turning at an intersection makes the turn much easier.
> >
> > When in 4 wd, one tire has to scuff going around a corner, this can make
> > the tire get up on top and just slide straight.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > blewyn wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :
> > >
> > > 4WD or 2WD ?
> > >
> > > I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
> > > as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
> > > tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh windblown
> > > sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.
> > >
> > > What do you think ?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Blewyn


 
Yes they have a diff, but when in 'part time' 4x4 the front and rear
axles are locked together. This make for a tire having to scuff.

If you have an open diff between the front and rear axles, then if you
leave it open, you won't have scuffing issues.

I drive Jeeps that lock solid into 4x4, no center diff, so I always have
a scuff in 4x4 when turning even with my 'open' diff axles.

Mike

blewyn wrote:
>
> Good point Mike, but don't 4WD vehicles generally have a diff on the
> axles to prevent this scuffing ? (when unlocked)
>
> Blewyn
>
> Mike Romain <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Your boss knows what he is talking about.
> >
> > Even in the city on snow covered streets, dropping to 2 wheel drive when
> > turning at an intersection makes the turn much easier.
> >
> > When in 4 wd, one tire has to scuff going around a corner, this can make
> > the tire get up on top and just slide straight.
> >
> > Mike
> > 86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
> > 88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's
> >
> > blewyn wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks for the advice guys ! One question remains though :
> > >
> > > 4WD or 2WD ?
> > >
> > > I would have thought 4WD, but my boss insists you should stick to 2WD
> > > as it will make the front wheels less likely to skid on corners (the
> > > tracks to the rigs are sandy but fairly compacted, not fresh windblown
> > > sand). Some of the corners are quite rutted.
> > >
> > > What do you think ?
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Blewyn
 
You mean the front wheels have MORE distance to cover, right ?

Blewyn
 

"blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You mean the front wheels have MORE distance to cover, right ?
>
> Blewyn

The next time you drive round a corner making tracks that can be seen, hop
out and walk back, you will see the front wheels tracks are inside the rear
wheel tracks, covering less distance than the rear.

The front wheels have to turn round fewer times to corner than the rear
wheels which are being sent around the long route.

rhys


 

"rnf2" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "blewyn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > You mean the front wheels have MORE distance to cover, right ?
> >
> > Blewyn
>
> The next time you drive round a corner making tracks that can be seen, hop
> out and walk back, you will see the front wheels tracks are inside the
rear
> wheel tracks, covering less distance than the rear.
>
> The front wheels have to turn round fewer times to corner than the rear
> wheels which are being sent around the long route.
>
> rhys

No, you have it backwards. The front wheels travel farther than the rear
wheels, they are the outside tracks, the rear wheels are the inside tracks.
Next time stop half way through your turn and look at how the vehicle is
sitting.
>


 
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