Pig Tail in brake pipe = MOT fail...?

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Bump said:
In simple terms... there is no risk to safety of the vehicle in any shape or form by having the loop in the brake line - by undoing to loop, cutting the pipe, re-terminating it and re-doing the connection (which is what they would like) is going to increase the likelyhood of it being unsafe, so, in essence they want me to make my car less safe for the MOT by playing around with the brakes. If the brakes are fully working - which they are and are performing well, which they are, then, why risk making the vehicle less safe?

Battery... I have no problem adding additional securing straps to it, but, it is not going to come out how it is currently fastened in as has been proven.

I think you fail to grasp that the MOT is SUBJECTIVE - it is not clearly enough defined, VOSA need to make it a lot clearer so, silly things like this don't force people to make vehicles less safe to satisfy someones opinion.

I think most people don't see MOT as the minimum... I mean I don't need seat belts, but, I have them, I don't need a roll cage, but, I've got one to go in (needs some minor alterations first) I don't need to carry a fire extinglisher in every vehicle, but, I do. The MOT just looks at certain aspects, that's all.
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I think you just need to stop whinging.For the cost/time of replacing the pipe its just not worth not doing it.The car would have been built,tested and approved with coated steel pipes from the factory.So who has tested your "mod" ? Without any real proof - only your opinion,you reckon its making the car less safe by taking out the loop.If that is the case,you shouldnt be doing the job anyway.You say you dont need seatbelts ? Maybe you dont,but its good your passengers have the choice... The passenger in the car in the accident I spoke of earlier was thrown out of the car,broke his back and had several other severe injuries - clearly didnt have a seatbelt on.
Why dont you just get someone capable to fix your car to a decent,safe standard and stop picking holes in a system that is trying hard to make cars safer.It may not be perfect,but at least its a set of eyes checking over vehicles once a year.
 
I second what Deegan says about having a loop in the pipe - not a bad thing. Some vehicles do have loops in the brake pipes. Ease of assembly at the production line, cope with thermal expansion and flexing.

Why the loop in Brake Lines - Team Camaro Tech

I don't believe the testers are allowed to poke and prod chassis/panels any more like they used to for checking rust holes. That to my mind is not "trying hard to make cars safer", it's a retrograde step. Has any legislation come in yet for failing an inoperable airbag (not suspension!). My Astra went through 4 MOTs with the airbag light illuminated....

Diff.
 
If any part of the loop hangs down below the axle tube or another substancial
Lump of steel to protect it from being snagged and ripped out it is a fail end of .. All brake lines need to be protected where possible and should adear to manufacturers guidlines you cant put pipes willy nilly were ever you want them just fix it like the guy said and stop moaning.......... easy ........
 
Location! Location! Location!
Rusty Spanner has hit the nail on the head as it were. I didn't understand where the pipe in question was - my link deals with pipes which are in locations unlikely to have anything hooking onto them and ripping them out. :eek:

Makes a bit more sense to me now.

Diff.
 
DIFFLOCK66 said:
Location! Location! Location!
Rusty Spanner has hit the nail on the head as it were. I didn't understand where the pipe in question was - my link deals with pipes which are in locations unlikely to have anything hooking onto them and ripping them out. :eek:

Makes a bit more sense to me now.

Diff.
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It is against the side of the chassis rail, it does not stick out below the chassis rail, so, is not at risk of being snagged. It is also above the axle height.

Rusty Spanner said:
If any part of the loop hangs down below the axle tube or another substancial
Lump of steel to protect it from being snagged and ripped out it is a fail end of .. All brake lines need to be protected where possible and should adear to manufacturers guidlines you cant put pipes willy nilly were ever you want them just fix it like the guy said and stop moaning.......... easy ........
Click to expand...

See above.

eightinavee said:
I think you just need to stop whinging.For the cost/time of replacing the pipe its just not worth not doing it.The car would have been built,tested and approved with coated steel pipes from the factory.So who has tested your "mod" ? Without any real proof - only your opinion,you reckon its making the car less safe by taking out the loop.If that is the case,you shouldnt be doing the job anyway.You say you dont need seatbelts ? Maybe you dont,but its good your passengers have the choice... The passenger in the car in the accident I spoke of earlier was thrown out of the car,broke his back and had several other severe injuries - clearly didnt have a seatbelt on.
Why dont you just get someone capable to fix your car to a decent,safe standard and stop picking holes in a system that is trying hard to make cars safer.It may not be perfect,but at least its a set of eyes checking over vehicles once a year.
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Firstly it is not "my mod" it has been on the vehicle longer than my ownership. Secondly, tests; well, most important would be does it affect braking efficiency. Brake test is part of the MOT - brake test is "very good" - so, no problem on that front. Next test would be, does it rub against anything, wear, cause potential to being snagged, etc. Well, Visual check and structural check of brake pipes is part of the MOT. The last 5 + years of MOT's have not seen this as a problem, it is secure, it does not "dangle" down where it could easily snag on anything. So - who has tested it? Well i guess 5 different MOT test people over the last 5 years. So, you're either saying an MOT testers opinion does not count for anything, so, in a warped way agree with my original post, or, you're saying an MOT testers opinion does count for something, which means it has been tested, so disagreeing with yourself... :scratching_chin: you're lacking some consistancy here.

Yes, i'm saying, to the word of the law for my car, i do not require seat belts. But, things change over time and things have to be MODIFIED (i know it's a scary to think people may modify a car from standard) to make them safer. I would personally not drive it without proper seat belts, in fact, i would go as far as saying that if it wasn't for my inurture (sp?) seatbelts, when it rolled a few years ago, i wouldn't be alive now.
Hmm... i wonder if someone has modified :)eek:) the brake pipe by adding a loop because the original design had a flaw that it suffered from vibrations from the vehicle and wore through... now that would be an interesting thought wouldn't it... but... to be on the (not so) safe side, we'd best remove all modifications and ignore safety.

:argue:
 
Well, if I wasn't sitting on the fence before, I bloody well am now! :)

Bump - is the loop a "normal" Spitfire mod that's documented and most enthusiasts get around to doing - much like a de-cat pipe and egr blank on a Disco TD5 for instance, or Capri 2.8i axle location kit?

Anyway - you said the local VOSA's not far away and the "fix" is inexpensive, just a bloody hassle should you need to do it. Take it up with them and let us know what's happening. I can see it's more of a principle thing.


Diff.
 
Change your MOT test station, some places and testers are just a pain, "making up" stuff that cannot be put down to interpretation of the rules, some times to get work (especially brake pipes) and sometimes because they are in a bad mood or just dumb. When I take a car for MOT I want to know that it has been done "correctly" i.e. to the letter of the regulations, I don't want "letting off" with anything nor do I want some stupid, made up reason to fail it.

If the OPs description is accurate (and lets assume that it is) then the tester is quite clearly wrong.

It used to be very common, indeed it was recommended by a lot of "experts" that when replacing steel brake pipes with copper or kunifer pipes that additional loops should be put in to compensate for the work hardening nature of the new pipes in areas where there was potential for movement and stress fractures could occur leading to brake failure.

To be honest in around 40 years of working on cars I have never seen a brake pipe fail that wasn't either corroded or physically damaged.
 
I really cant be bothered with this anymore. You have had something pointed out that in the testers opinion warranted failing the test - either fix it and shut up or go to VOSA,they are according to you only 2 miles away.They are the law in this case,so rather than gobbing off on here, get their answer.
From where you say the loop is I cant say I'd be happy with it there on a car used off road,that loop is much more likely to catch a branch of a tree and snag it - wrecking the pipe,rather than the original layout.(I had this happen on my bog standard D1 a couple of years ago when towing a load of firewood down a forestry track)
I simply dont understand why you wouldnt want to make this part of your car back to factory spec.But then your attitude towards not needing a seatbelt speaks volumes,you clearly know better than everyone else.I wonder how that chap is now feeling who was thrown out of that car a couple of weeks back, that I saw strapped into a stretcher with no skin on his,(broken) back and blood coming out of his ears.
My guess is he would have put his seatbelt on if he could wind time back.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do - even if it does mean occassionally admitting you are wrong - I have to like most others do,its part of life.
 
I just asked another of our testers who has been testing for 20 years and he has no problems with it. He said as long as its secure, not corroded or damaged and in a suitable place there is nothing wrong with it. He also builds and races rally cars so knows abit about strenuous conditions

MOT's are subjective each tester will have a slightly different view on it but generally correlate. Just take it to another station and it's sorted
 
eightinavee said:
I really cant be bothered with this anymore. You have had something pointed out that in the testers opinion warranted failing the test - either fix it and shut up or go to VOSA,they are according to you only 2 miles away.They are the law in this case,so rather than gobbing off on here, get their answer.
From where you say the loop is I cant say I'd be happy with it there on a car used off road,that loop is much more likely to catch a branch of a tree and snag it - wrecking the pipe,rather than the original layout.(I had this happen on my bog standard D1 a couple of years ago when towing a load of firewood down a forestry track)
I simply dont understand why you wouldnt want to make this part of your car back to factory spec.But then your attitude towards not needing a seatbelt speaks volumes,you clearly know better than everyone else.I wonder how that chap is now feeling who was thrown out of that car a couple of weeks back, that I saw strapped into a stretcher with no skin on his,(broken) back and blood coming out of his ears.
My guess is he would have put his seatbelt on if he could wind time back.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do - even if it does mean occassionally admitting you are wrong - I have to like most others do,its part of life.
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would you like me to pick your dummy up for you?;) you've made your point now look at the next topic........
 
I have advised you of the VOSA option form , just be aware that if you go this route , the single item that you are agrieved about will be looked at , BUT they will also carryout a full examination of the vehicle . This may not be with the outcome you wish . HTSH
 
Eightinavee i tent to agree with your points to a degree things should be right! But here on this occasion I doubt his spitfire will be going offroad anytime soon if its as he decribes safe and secure and not corroded then good to go.

I have seen many a "Secured" battery offroad I had to make a mount out of ali angle at a comp because his bit of rope (double knotted) I failed as insecure for scruteneering.
 
rowlesy said:
would you like me to pick your dummy up for you?;) you've made your point now look at the next topic........
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I feel no need to "Spit my dummy" but I've tired of people who clearly know better than anyone else,and shout loudly on any old net forum when told to do something other than what THEY think is correct...He clearly is on a sticky wicket or he would have gone straight to VOSA.
I post on here to give honest advice to people having problems with their LR's,but with posts like yours it does not encourage me to carry on.
 
eightinavee said:
I really cant be bothered with this anymore. You have had something pointed out that in the testers opinion warranted failing the test - either fix it and shut up or go to VOSA,they are according to you only 2 miles away.They are the law in this case,so rather than gobbing off on here, get their answer.
From where you say the loop is I cant say I'd be happy with it there on a car used off road,that loop is much more likely to catch a branch of a tree and snag it - wrecking the pipe,rather than the original layout.(I had this happen on my bog standard D1 a couple of years ago when towing a load of firewood down a forestry track)
I simply dont understand why you wouldnt want to make this part of your car back to factory spec.But then your attitude towards not needing a seatbelt speaks volumes,you clearly know better than everyone else.I wonder how that chap is now feeling who was thrown out of that car a couple of weeks back, that I saw strapped into a stretcher with no skin on his,(broken) back and blood coming out of his ears.
My guess is he would have put his seatbelt on if he could wind time back.
Good luck on whatever you decide to do - even if it does mean occassionally admitting you are wrong - I have to like most others do,its part of life.
Click to expand...

Off road a Spitfire? really? :confused: Not a f**king chance, it has straight body panels and nice shiny non-scratched paint - oh and f-all ground clearance! I have to take it slowly down farm tracks, it's not worth thinking about a green lane :eek:

Why it hasn't been to VOSA yet? Quite simply I leave home at 6:30am and get home in the evening - VOSA isn't open 24-7 you know. And yes, it is literally 2 miles away, is that really that hard to accept that someone could live 2 miles away from a VOSA centre? It was a nice surprise when i came to sort out my trailer test to find there was a VOSA place so locally :)


You clearly have no understanding of MOT's with old vehicles. They are MOT'd to the spec. of the MOT at the time the vehicle was built. In the case of both my series and my Spitfire that means that they do not require, for the purpose of the MOT seatbelts. That does not mean you can't have them, I think most if not all owners do, but, they are not required for the MOT. I'm not sure how fitting seat belts to cars which don't necessarily require them makes me know more than everyone else? It's standard practice for any classic car owner to add proper seat belts in a lot of cases... I'm really not sure what you're on about tbh. Would you be taking them out so it was original if it was your car then???
 
200tdi ayre said:
I just asked another of our testers who has been testing for 20 years and he has no problems with it. He said as long as its secure, not corroded or damaged and in a suitable place there is nothing wrong with it. He also builds and races rally cars so knows abit about strenuous conditions

MOT's are subjective each tester will have a slightly different view on it but generally correlate. Just take it to another station and it's sorted
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Thank you :D

As it looks like there is very little chance i'll have the bit of welding done before my 2 weeks is up it'll be going to a new test center anyway :D
 
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