Pick-up Truck Search Finally Over

Mike Hunter wrote:
>
> Precisely, merely assembled of mostly foreign parts, but not made in the US.
> That is why they have a '4' '5' or 'J' and not a '1' The only exceptions
> are those vehicles made in the GM/Toyota plant in California, where the UAW
> contract requires 75% American parts, those vehicles have a '1' as required
> by federal law.


Mike, why don't we make a little friendly wager. I will bet you
$100 that if you go to a Toyota dealership this week and look at
the new 2006 Camrys, you will see that their VINs begin with either
a 4 or a J--not a 5 as you wrote in an earlier post. And looking at the
Origin Stickers of those cars, you will see that the "4" cars will range
between 75 and 80 percent American parts (most will be 80 percent).

Even my J-Vin Camry which was assembled in Japan AND whose engine
and transmission are Japanese in origin--even my car's Origin Sticker
still shows 80 percent American parts and 20 percent Japanese. (I wonder
if the engine and tranny are each counted as only one part when determining
the parts percentages??)

Anyhow, a friendly $100 bet payable through PayPal.com.
Willing to bet? I say Mike is NOT willing to bet [chuckle]

As Hachi and I mentioned months ago, and as wacky as it may sound, for
the 2006 Camry they must have shipped a whole lot of American parts
over to Japan because even the J-Vin '06 Camrys show on their Origin
stickers 80 percent American parts. Kinda odd. Shouldn't it be the
other way around? Shouldn't we be shipping Japanese parts here?

Interesting thing to note is that the '05 and '06 RAV4s show
different numbers in the 11th spot of their VINs. The '05 RAVs
I've checked on the net have a zero for their assembly plant
VIN position while the '06 RAV shows a 5.

(American plants are designated by a letter, but the Japan
plants use a number.)

Still searching for the elusive Japan plant code legend...

Incidentally, the '06 J-Vin RAV4 I saw on my local dealer's lot
showed 100 percent Japan parts, but not so the '06 J-Vin Camry.

Even the J-Vin Camrys for 2006 show 80 percent American parts. I
wonder if the same is true for the 2005 Camry and 2004? How long
has this been going on?

I mean American auto parts are great, but I bought a J-Vin Camry because
I wanted a Japanese car to replace my J-Vin Tercel (may it rest in peace).

If I wanted a Malibu, I woulda bought a Malibu.

Any '05 or '04 "J-Vin" Camry buyers remember what their Origin Stickers
said? I'm guessing you probably don't remember, because the dealer
usually throws away the Origin Sticker when prepping your car for you to
take home. The dealer will hand you the "Window Sticker" (at
least mine did) but the Origin Sticker was trashed, and I didn't
remember to ask for it.

I wonder if the '05 and '04 Camrys assembled in Japan also show
80 percent American parts, like the '06 does?

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:50:16 GMT, Bonehenge
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:09:31 GMT, "Kirt Burgtorf"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Ed,
>>
>>Thanks for supporting US workers! We all appreciate it. Not!
>
>Aren't Frontiers built in Tennessee, or at least in the US? My '96
>King Cab was, proudly proclaimed by a blue and white window decal.
>
>Heck, my Tacoma was built my NUMMI, in Fremont, CA, a former GM plant.
>My Subaru Outback is from Indiana.
>
>If you're going to break someone's balls about their vehicle, at least
>you can learn some facts first.

Years ago my mom bought a Mercury because she wanted an American
car...yeah...made in Mexico.

"Kirt Burgtorf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed,
>
> Thanks for supporting US workers! We all appreciate it. Not!

Well my Frontier was built in Tennessee and has enough content to qualify as
a US built vehicle ("1" for the country code). The way things are now, I
suspect my Frontier has close to the same US content as your F150.

> By the way, I have a neighbor with a Frontier that has been in the shop
> twice in its first 4 months. My 2005 F150 has never been back and
> everything is perfect...

My 1992 F150 was a great vehicle. I have no doubt that your 2005 is as well.
Unfortunately, Ford has aimed the F150 at the Chevy Silverado buyers. It is
no longer a work truck. It is now more like a car with a pick-up bed on the
back. The 4WD versions are jacked up way too high and the bed sides are too
high as well. It is difficult to reach into the bed from the side to lift
out items that I need when planting crops, or working on fences. This is
unimportant if you are just riding around in the truck, but if you use it
like I use a truck, it makes it non-competitive choice (although I did
consider one).

As I said before, I wanted something smaller and more useful than the
current F150 or Silverado. The Ranger is too small (we have owned 5 of
those). I did strongly consider the Colorado, but in the end it was more
expensive than the Frontier, and just did not seem as well built.

Ed

"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less
> desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in
> the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30% more than
> comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit of research
> the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of their vehicles
in
> the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda. All of the
> others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts.

My Frontier has a "1" for the first digit. I assume that means it was built
in the US and contains mostly US made parts. Right?

Ed

"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less
> desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in
> the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30% more than
> comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit of research
> the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of their vehicles
> in the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda. All of
> the others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts.
>
>
> mike hunt
>

My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my
sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%.

Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each.

Dan J.S. wrote:
> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and less
>>desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the vehicles in
>>the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30% more than
>>comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit of research
>>the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of their vehicles
>>in the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda. All of
>>the others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts.
>>
>>
>>mike hunt
>>
>
>
> My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my
> sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%.
>
> Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each.
>
>
>
Bonuses are monies that should have been paid as wages in the first place

Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law


mike hunt


"Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and
>> less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the
>> vehicles in the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30% more
>> than comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit of
>> research the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of their
>> vehicles in the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda.
>> All of the others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts.
>>
>>
>> mike hunt
>>
>
> My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my
> sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%.
>
> Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each.
>
>
>

"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law
>
>
>
> mike hunt
>

I'm no expert on VIN decoding but accordinng to this federal government site
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_05/49cfr565_05.html it looks like
within certain parameters, it is up to the manufacturers to code their VINS.

According to Toyota's faq, here is information on decoding Toyota's VIN:

The Vehicle Identification Number, commonly referred to as the VIN, is a
sequence of 17 letters and numbers that is uniquely assigned for each
vehicle. The VIN can usually be found on the driver's side dashboard near or
under the bottom portion of the windshield. It can also be found on the
certification label found on the driver's doorjamb on most vehicles. The VIN
provides some information about the vehicle. It is typically composed of
four sections. The first three digits are called the World Manufacturer
Identifier (WMI).
Toyota VINs starting with "1", "4", or "5" represent vehicles assembled in
the United States and VINs beginning with "2" indicate vehicles assembled in
Canada. Vehicles with VINs that start with "J" were produced in Japan. The
next five digits (4 through 8) are the Vehicle Description Section (VDS).
These digits provide information on the vehicle model, body style, and
engine type. The ninth digit is a check digit used internally. The 10th
digit indicates the model year; letters (except "O" and "Z") were used for
vehicles up to the 2000 model year while numbers are used for 2001 and newer
vehicles. For example, "X" means the 1999 model year, "Y" is the 2000 model
year and "1" represents the 2001 model year. The 11th digit is the plant
code. Finally, digits 12 - 17 are the unique serial number.

AFAIK, the government does not require, and Toyota does not use a unique
number to represent parts content in its VIN.

--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)

> "Dan J.S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> 30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and
>>> less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the
>>> vehicles in the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30%
>>> more than comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit
>>> of research the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of
>>> their vehicles in the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and
>>> Honda. All of the others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign
>>> parts.
>>>
>>>
>>> mike hunt
>>>
>>
>> My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my
>> sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%.
>>
>> Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each.
>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law
>
>
>
> mike hunt

Mike, I dont know anything about VINs but I do know that on the window
sticker it said 90% american parts and made in USA. Thats the 2005 Sienna.
My 2003 4runner was all Japanese parts and made in Japan. My 2006 Corvette
was 80% american parts and made in USA.

"Ole" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Dan J.S. wrote:
>> "Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>30,500 workers that are paid lower wages, offered fewer benefits and
>>>less desirable medical coverage and pensions, who only assembly the
>>>vehicles in the US of mostly imported parts that sell for 20% to 30% more
>>>than comparable sized and equipped domestics. Get real. Do a bit of
>>>research the only manufacture that actually builds the majority of their
>>>vehicles in the US of mostly American parts are the domestics and Honda.
>>>All of the others only assemble vehicle in the US of foreign parts.
>>>
>>>
>>>mike hunt
>>>
>>
>>
>> My 2005 Toyota Sienna minivan has 90% of american parts in it (so says my
>> sticker). Thats more than the suburban, at 50%.
>>
>> Also, Toyota just gave all their employees a $10,000 bonus - each.
>>
>>
>>
> Bonuses are monies that should have been paid as wages in the first place

Performance bonuses make people work better. You reward with bonuses.

"Mike Hunter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Then why does the VIN not start with a '1' as required by federal law
>
>
>
> mike hunt
>

BTW Check out this corvette forum thread (I own a 2006 C6 corvette and I
have no problems) but see that only 58% of people polled have no problems,
others do. Shows that quality issues still exist at GM.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1316978&page=1&pp=20

Steve W. wrote:
>
> http://www.vinpower.com/vininformation.aspx


Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading
the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an
answer as to why three separate numbers in the first VIN position
can refer to the United States: 1, 4, and 5.

We know that 2 refers to Canada, and 3 means Mexico, but why
should the U.S.A. have 3 numbers devoted to it?
Mike says the 3 different numbers make distinctions as to the percentage
of North American auto parts found in a vehicle--with 1 being the
highest percentage and 5 the lowest. The only problem with that is
we've seen Camry VINs starting with a 4 that have Origin Stickers
showing 80 percent North American parts, and we've seen Sienna
VINs beginning with a 5 that show 90 percent American parts.

Mike, you still might be right, but you're not providing us with
any sources to back up your claim, and sources to explain the Sienna
and Camry examples.

I've now spent 21 dollars at LexisNexis.com, downloading 7 different
documents, and I still haven't found a definitive answer as to the
Mystical Meanings of "1," "4," and "5"...

Can you believe it: each of the documents I've read says that 1, 4,
and 5 mean United States, but none describes the differences between
1, 4, and 5! [chuckle] How exasperating.

Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to
Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup!

Ray, I appreciate reading all your posts concerning Toyota
mechanical problems. They are very informative, and I thank
you for them. You know your stuff. But I have to challenge
you here.

Technically, it's the ELEVENTH vin position that refers
to the plant. Recall my much earlier posting in this thread (I've
included a brief excerpt of it at the end of this message).

The first vin position involves the country of origin.

Now, I too, like you, originally thought that 1, 4, and 5
in the FIRST vin position *OF TOYOTA* vehicles (as opposed to
NISAN or DODGE) also referred to the *TOYOTA* plant of
final assembly--perhaps just a redundant reference to the plant in
addition to the ELEVENTH vin position (the ELEVENTH *officially*
refers to the plant). But Mike immediately
challenged me, saying 1, 4, and 5 in the FIRST vin position of
Toyotas is NOT a redundant reference to the plant. He says it
refers to the percentage of North American auto parts found in
the vehicle.

Considering that I have read independent sources confirming
that the ELEVENTH vin position officially refers to the plant, having
the FIRST vin position also refer to the plant is rather redundant.
But Ray you might be right. However, both of you cannot be
right--both you and Mike.

Here's the excerpt from my earlier post:

"....the 11th VIN position *officially* designates
the plant: "U" means Georgetown, KY. "Z"=Fremont, CA.
"S"=Princeton, IN. "C"=Canada.
Japan plants are represented by a number in
that 11th VIN position ("3" for example may be the
Tsutsumi plant--but of course a "3" in the *first* VIN
position means Mexico)."

"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading
> the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an
> answer as to why three separate numbers in the first VIN position
> can refer to the United States: 1, 4, and 5.
>
> We know that 2 refers to Canada, and 3 means Mexico, but why
> should the U.S.A. have 3 numbers devoted to it?
> Mike says the 3 different numbers make distinctions as to the percentage
> of North American auto parts found in a vehicle--with 1 being the
> highest percentage and 5 the lowest. The only problem with that is
> we've seen Camry VINs starting with a 4 that have Origin Stickers
> showing 80 percent North American parts, and we've seen Sienna
> VINs beginning with a 5 that show 90 percent American parts.
>
> Mike, you still might be right, but you're not providing us with
> any sources to back up your claim, and sources to explain the Sienna
> and Camry examples.
>
> I've now spent 21 dollars at LexisNexis.com, downloading 7 different
> documents, and I still haven't found a definitive answer as to the
> Mystical Meanings of "1," "4," and "5"...
>
> Can you believe it: each of the documents I've read says that 1, 4,
> and 5 mean United States, but none describes the differences between
> 1, 4, and 5! [chuckle] How exasperating.
>
> Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to
> Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup!

I believe that it refers to the percent of domestic parts content in car,
even though all are assembled in US or Canada.

Decoding Your Toyota VIN
**Model Years 1982-1995**

*1989: newer VIN Plate on passenger cars is located on the inside of
drivers door*

*Prior to 1989: VIN Plate is located on firewall within engine
compartment*

Digit Position Position
---------------- -----------

#1------------------------Country-J=Japan

#2------------------------Manufacturer-T=Toyota

#3------------------------Type-2=Passenger Car


#4-#8--------------------Line,Series,BodyType,Engine,Restraint
**********************(not necessarily in this order) ****************

#9------------------------Check Digit

#10-----------------------Year- B=1981 C=1982
D=1983 E=1984
F=1985 G=1986
H=1987 J=1988
K=1989 L=1990
M=1991 N=1992
P=1993 R=1994
S=1995


#11-------------------------Assembly Plant-
C= Ontario, Canada
O= Supra plants
U=Gergetown, Kentucky
Z=Fremont, California

#12 - #18------------------Sequential Production Number





On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:49:32 -0700, "Mark A" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading
>> the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an
>> answer as to why three separate numbers in the first VIN position
>> can refer to the United States: 1, 4, and 5.
>>
>> We know that 2 refers to Canada, and 3 means Mexico, but why
>> should the U.S.A. have 3 numbers devoted to it?
>> Mike says the 3 different numbers make distinctions as to the percentage
>> of North American auto parts found in a vehicle--with 1 being the
>> highest percentage and 5 the lowest. The only problem with that is
>> we've seen Camry VINs starting with a 4 that have Origin Stickers
>> showing 80 percent North American parts, and we've seen Sienna
>> VINs beginning with a 5 that show 90 percent American parts.
>>
>> Mike, you still might be right, but you're not providing us with
>> any sources to back up your claim, and sources to explain the Sienna
>> and Camry examples.
>>
>> I've now spent 21 dollars at LexisNexis.com, downloading 7 different
>> documents, and I still haven't found a definitive answer as to the
>> Mystical Meanings of "1," "4," and "5"...
>>
>> Can you believe it: each of the documents I've read says that 1, 4,
>> and 5 mean United States, but none describes the differences between
>> 1, 4, and 5! [chuckle] How exasperating.
>>
>> Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to
>> Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup!
>
>I believe that it refers to the percent of domestic parts content in car,
>even though all are assembled in US or Canada.
>

*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

Tips to understanding your vehicles serial (VIN) number

They are as follows:

1st character- Identifies the country in which the vehicle was
manufactured.
For example: U.S.A.(1or4), Canada(2), Mexico(3), Japan(J), Korea(K),
England(S), Germany(W), Italy(Z)

2nd character- Identifies the manufacturer. For example; Audi(A),
BMW(B), Buick(4), Cadillac(6), Chevrolet(1), Chrysler(C), Dodge(B),
Ford(F), GM Canada(7), General Motors(G), Honda(H), Jaquar(A),
Lincoln(L), Mercedes Benz(D), Mercury(M), Nissan(N), Oldsmobile(3),
Pontiac(2or5), Plymouth(P), Saturn(8), Toyota(T), VW(V), Volvo(V).

3rd character- Identifies vehicle type or manufacturing division.

4th to 8th characters- Identifies vehicle features such as body style,
engine type, model, series, etc.

9th character- Identifies VIN accuracy as check digit.

10th character- Identifies the model year. For example: 1988(J),
1989(K), 1990(L), 1991(M), 1992(N), 1993(P), 1994(R), 1995(S),
1996(T),
1997(V), 1998(W), 1999(X), 2000(Y)------2001(1), 2002(2), 2003(3)

11th character- Identifies the assembly plant for the vehicle.

12th to 17th characters- Identifies the sequence of the vehicle for
production
as it rolled of the manufacturers assembly line.
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 11:49:32 -0700, "Mark A" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>"Built_Well" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Thanks for that great link, Steve. I really enjoyed reading
>> the detailed information. Unfortunately, we still don't have an
>> answer as to why three separate numbers in the first VIN position
>> can refer to the United States: 1, 4, and 5.
>>
>> We know that 2 refers to Canada, and 3 means Mexico, but why
>> should the U.S.A. have 3 numbers devoted to it?
>> Mike says the 3 different numbers make distinctions as to the percentage
>> of North American auto parts found in a vehicle--with 1 being the
>> highest percentage and 5 the lowest. The only problem with that is
>> we've seen Camry VINs starting with a 4 that have Origin Stickers
>> showing 80 percent North American parts, and we've seen Sienna
>> VINs beginning with a 5 that show 90 percent American parts.
>>
>> Mike, you still might be right, but you're not providing us with
>> any sources to back up your claim, and sources to explain the Sienna
>> and Camry examples.
>>
>> I've now spent 21 dollars at LexisNexis.com, downloading 7 different
>> documents, and I still haven't found a definitive answer as to the
>> Mystical Meanings of "1," "4," and "5"...
>>
>> Can you believe it: each of the documents I've read says that 1, 4,
>> and 5 mean United States, but none describes the differences between
>> 1, 4, and 5! [chuckle] How exasperating.
>>
>> Whoever comes up with this answer deserves a free vacation to
>> Las Vegas, paid for by the regulars of this Toyota newsgroup!
>
>I believe that it refers to the percent of domestic parts content in car,
>even though all are assembled in US or Canada.
>

*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:07:51 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:

>
>
>Tips to understanding your vehicles serial (VIN) number
>
>They are as follows:
>
>1st character- Identifies the country in which the vehicle was
>manufactured.
>For example: U.S.A.(1or4), Canada(2), Mexico(3), Japan(J), Korea(K),
>England(S), Germany(W), Italy(Z)
>
>2nd character- Identifies the manufacturer. For example; Audi(A),
>BMW(B), Buick(4), Cadillac(6), Chevrolet(1), Chrysler(C), Dodge(B),
>Ford(F), GM Canada(7), General Motors(G), Honda(H), Jaquar(A),
>Lincoln(L), Mercedes Benz(D), Mercury(M), Nissan(N), Oldsmobile(3),
>Pontiac(2or5), Plymouth(P), Saturn(8), Toyota(T), VW(V), Volvo(V).
>
>3rd character- Identifies vehicle type or manufacturing division.
>
>4th to 8th characters- Identifies vehicle features such as body style,
>engine type, model, series, etc.
>
>9th character- Identifies VIN accuracy as check digit.
>
>10th character- Identifies the model year. For example: 1988(J),
>1989(K), 1990(L), 1991(M), 1992(N), 1993(P), 1994(R), 1995(S),
>1996(T),
>1997(V), 1998(W), 1999(X), 2000(Y)------2001(1), 2002(2), 2003(3)
>
>11th character- Identifies the assembly plant for the vehicle.
>
>12th to 17th characters- Identifies the sequence of the vehicle for
>production
>as it rolled of the manufacturers assembly line.


My 2005 Tacoma starts with 5TEUU42...

It's made in Fremont, CA, USA @ NUMMI, so I'm assuming "5" as a first
digit is USA.

"Bonehenge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:07:51 -0500, clare at snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
<snipped>
>
> My 2005 Tacoma starts with 5TEUU42...
>
> It's made in Fremont, CA, USA @ NUMMI, so I'm assuming "5" as a first
> digit is USA.


OK, that kills my theory!
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)