P38A P38 FIP Repairs

Lukas018 · Jul 11, 2020

Grrrrrr said:
Did Ovalandrover's one work on his car? Otherwise, why did you bother swapping it?

To see if it was my FIP that was at fault for the non-starting when it originally went wrong. Everything else checked out. So we put his one in that was refurbished to rule my FIP out and it still would not start. Once I changed the head and chains etc I installed the skitt one and car started albeit now with a faulty qs.

So it looks like I been very unlucky these things come on 3's so a 4th one could end my drama for once

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

You need a known healthy pump to try now that the works been done

Datatek · Jul 12, 2020

Lukas018 said:
I agree just asking a question.

All I am trying to say is my engine has had 3 FIP's if the quantity servo has failed in all 3 then so be it if not could there be an issue with the feed from FIP to the ECU?

OR if the QS is a separate unit not housed in the pump then where is it located so I can swap it out?

I can't help if I don't understand. We all started somewhere.

I have listened and agree it could be the QS but for a qs to go in all 3 pumps is unlikely?

The QS is an integral part of the FIP. It does seem strange that you got the same fault with the refurbished FIP. Two old FIP's is understandable, but the same with a refurbished one is odd.

wammers · Jul 12, 2020

Has he checked the linearity of the throttle pot i wonder?

Lukas018 · Jul 12, 2020

wammers said:
Has he checked the linearity of the throttle pot i wonder?

I haven't mate. How do I check this please?

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

Now I give up

Post 38

Lukas018 · Jul 12, 2020

RangeRoller dt said:
Now I give up

Post 38

Yeah ok checking throttle feedback is this under the inputs on the nanocom where can see modulation etc?

What should be the reading?

Only had nanacom 2 days.

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

I’ve not even got one.

First thing you should check your actual lift pump mils.
Get engine running up to temperature and go into EDC. Don’t change a thing without writing it down, I would write everything down
If you put an SD card in it you can record live data on a run, presuming it will drive.

There’s lots of information in there like fuel quantity feedback, fuel current etc. Modulation should be around 50% - check this for certain
you need to get familiar with what it means and how it relates to other systems on the vehicle - this is where the expertise of the gurus and the searchbar comes in. It will all come in time

wammers · Jul 12, 2020

RangeRoller dt said:
I’ve not even got one.

First thing you should check your actual lift pump mils.
Get engine running up to temperature and go into EDC. Don’t change a thing without writing it down, I would write everything down
If you put an SD card in it you can record live data on a run, presuming it will drive.

There’s lots of information in there like fuel quantity feedback, fuel current etc. Modulation should be around 50% - check this for certain
you need to get familiar with what it means and how it relates to other systems on the vehicle - this is where the expertise of the gurus and the searchbar comes in. It will all come in time

Modulation will change at higher RPMs. Modulation will rise as the internal pump pressure rises. So it is not a constant.

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

only really been privy to things at warm idle, mainly Grrrr talking me through the threads where you showed him and pickling your brains.
As far as I understand the ecu uses point of injection and accelerator pedal to measure demand, then moves the pot to account for fuel, but if it gives a dud signal or slips off the track itl kill the fuel in fear of chains snapping or something catastrophic.
Therefore only sign of a worn QS fault with diagnostic is the ‘fuel out of range’ as above and/or the throttle pot will spike off on the reading
Is this correct or have I gone terribly wrong somewhere??

Datatek · Jul 12, 2020

Lukas018 said:
Yeah ok checking throttle feedback is this under the inputs on the nanocom where can see modulation etc?

What should be the reading?

Only had nanacom 2 days.

Throttle pot will appear under inputs in the EDC section of Nanocom, should move smoothly through the range.
I don't have a Nanocom so it may show as a voltage or a percentage, it matters not, it should just change smoothly from the low figure to the high figure.
Somewhere in the Nanocom EDC there will be a page like the one below with a line of numbers, on most cars all the numbers are 128 but some like this one are different, be interesting to know what those figures are on your car.

wammers · Jul 12, 2020

RangeRoller dt said:
only really been privy to things at warm idle, mainly Grrrr talking me through the threads where you showed him and pickling your brains.
As far as I understand the ecu uses point of injection and accelerator pedal to measure demand, then moves the pot to account for fuel, but if it gives a dud signal or slips off the track itl kill the fuel in fear of chains snapping or something catastrophic.
Therefore only sign of a worn QS fault with diagnostic is the ‘fuel out of range’ as above and/or the throttle pot will spike off on the reading
Is this correct or have I gone terribly wrong somewhere??

Point of injection adjusted by modulation has nothing to do with fuel quantity or demand.

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

Grr made comparison spreadsheets somewhere

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

How does it calculate the load , cps/ecu?

RangeRoller dt · Jul 12, 2020

From @Grrrrrr s adventures

Bare in mind the guy on the bottom row had an issue.

Grrrrrr · Jul 13, 2020

RangeRoller dt said:
How does it calculate the load , cps/ecu?

The amount of fuel to inject is all done by the engine management system. It takes all the inputs, throttle, air temperature etc and reads off the appropriate value. Modulation is about fine tuning the point of injection of the fuel. tnsseal put up the manual for the pumps somewhere and I have reposted it a few times in a zip file.

wammers · Jul 13, 2020

Fuel injected is subject to throttle demand and load. A requested 2000 RPM for instance will need minimal fuel for that RPM if the car is stationary out of gear. More when the car is in gear, more when the car is moving and more if you go from flat to up hill. Moving from flat to up hill fuel will be increased by the ECU to maintain 2000 RPM as the hill steepens more fuel will be added until the MAP limit is reached then the driver will have to increase throttle demand to maintain speed or the car will change down a gear. Diesels are throttled by fuel and not by air as petrol engines are, there is always more air in the cylinders of a diesel than is needed for combustion. Petrol engines draw in or inject fuel subject to air flow into the engine to maintain a constant fuel air mixture ratio. Diesels do not do that. Petrol engines run at around 14 to 1 mixture ratio. Diesels at idle can be running a mixture ratio well over 100 to 1. That is why they produce Nox.

Lukas018 · Jul 13, 2020

@Grrrrrr on the nanocom tried to get pump calibration figures can only get idle value? Have attached screen shot.

Datatek · Jul 13, 2020

Lukas018 said:
@Grrrrrr on the nanocom tried to get pump calibration figures can only get idle value? Have attached screen shot.

Was the engine running?

Lukas018 · Jul 13, 2020

Datatek said:
Was the engine running?

Yes mate it was would only let me put data in. I turned off and on still same thing. Not sure if need to press write settings to get the value but I dont want to do it if it mucks things up?

Car was idling I dont know with nanocom if you need to drive it to get the values but would of thought value just come up like live data

P38A P38 FIP Repairs

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