P38 2.5 DSE Cold Start Problem

Hi Guys,

Im brand new on here so go easy on me

Ive owned my P38 now for around 3 years, its a 2000 X plate and is the second one ive owned. But they do have their problems ive learned .

To give a brief bit of history, I broke down on the M6 motorway around 18 months ago due to overheating, it turned out that the head had cracked (ouch!!) .....cutting a long and expensive story short, I bought a reconditioned head and had it fitted....along with new head bolts, gasket etc....It took a few months to get the car back as one of my friends was carrying out the work in between jobs at his garage for me. When I got it back there was a diesel leak coming from the top of the Diesel Injector Pump . I read lots about it and didnt quite appreciate how expensive these pumps were! But it turns out to be a common problem. I also read that you can change the seal on the top of the pump yourself, as long as youre careful.

Well instead of forking out £700 ish for a new pump, I opted to buy the seal kit from diesel jones which cost around £30 ish. I fitted the new seal, replaced the fiddly top in what I think is the same place (i marked it on all visible sides) and it seemed to start up great....albeit a bit slow to start with. Well now....3 or 4 months later, the engine just simply does not want to fire up first thing in the morning....It has got progressively worse over the last month or so, takes forever to "fire" and can crank over for a good 20 odd seconds before it wants to go. I get a vast amount of white smoke come out of the exhaust while it is cranking but once it has fired up, it runs beautiful??? When the weather is warmer/dryer it can fire up relatively quick.....but im at a loss now??

Could this problem be related to the new seal I replaced on the injector pump? or maybe fuel running back towards the tank? I have checked all of the glowplugs and each one of them glows lovely. If anyone might be able to shed some light on the matter I would really appreciate it ...I didnt really want to go down another expensive road if I can help it.

Thanks in advance lads

Glowplugs need replacing or a fault with a temperature sensor.

When you say the plugs glow lovely, have you had them out and checked them? If you have do you get power to them when you turn the ignition on? Have you checked the plug relay? White smoke would point to incomplete combustion and they need the plugs to fire the engine into life

tomcat59alan said:

When you say the plugs glow lovely, have you had them out and checked them? If you have do you get power to them when you turn the ignition on? Have you checked the plug relay? White smoke would point to incomplete combustion and they need the plugs to fire the engine into life

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All 6 plugs were removed and were tested individually using jump leads from the battery. But to be honest....we didnt check any voltages going to the plugs themselves when they are in situe in the engine. Where abouts is the plug relay or the temperature sensor? Is it simple to test?

The glowplug light on the dash illuminates for around 5 or 6 seconds before it goes out but I guess that really isnt an indication as to whether they have power to them?

GavinDavis said:

All 6 plugs were removed and were tested individually using jump leads from the battery. But to be honest....we didnt check any voltages going to the plugs themselves when they are in situe in the engine. Where abouts is the plug relay or the temperature sensor? Is it simple to test?

The glowplug light on the dash illuminates for around 5 or 6 seconds before it goes out but I guess that really isnt an indication as to whether they have power to them?

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5 or 6 seconds is not that long,possibly glowplug timer relay?
In this cold weather i reckon my light is on for around 12 seconds.Have you tried heating it twice before starting.If then starts that would point to timer or relay i think.One of the gurus will keep you(and me) right

Ed

rodntod said:

5 or 6 seconds is not that long,possibly glowplug timer relay?
In this cold weather i reckon my light is on for around 12 seconds.Have you tried heating it twice before starting.If then starts that would point to timer or relay i think.One of the gurus will keep you(and me) right

Ed

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Yes ive tried the double heating technique but unfortunately it didnt make a noticeable difference . 12 seconds is definitely a lot different to mine.....maybe the timer or relay are holding the answer? Where would I find these two things gents?

GavinDavis said:

All 6 plugs were removed and were tested individually using jump leads from the battery. But to be honest....we didnt check any voltages going to the plugs themselves when they are in situe in the engine. Where abouts is the plug relay or the temperature sensor? Is it simple to test?

The glowplug light on the dash illuminates for around 5 or 6 seconds before it goes out but I guess that really isnt an indication as to whether they have power to them?

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This weather that may indicate a problem with the ECU temp sensor. Should be on longer than that if it's cold. Time varies with engine temp.

wammers said:

This weather that may indicate a problem with the ECU temp sensor. Should be on longer than that if it's cold. Time varies with engine temp.

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Im willing to give anything a shot trust me ....where would I find the said temp sensor buddy? This isnt the one located inside the fuel pump is it?

GavinDavis said:

Im willing to give anything a shot trust me ....where would I find the said temp sensor buddy? This isnt the one located inside the fuel pump is it?

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No that is the fuel temp sensor. Which could also be a problem but seldom fails. You would need diag to check it for sense. R/H side of head from front of car, under manifold first sensor behind injection pump is gauge sender. Second one along mid point of head usually green in colour is ECU temp sensor.

Brilliant stuff, thanks Wammers! Ill have a look at it in the light of day tomorrow

Sorry for another dumb question but is it easy to test or would it be cheap enough to risk a new one as a matter of cause?

GavinDavis said:

Brilliant stuff, thanks Wammers! Ill have a look at it in the light of day tomorrow

Sorry for another dumb question but is it easy to test or would it be cheap enough to risk a new one as a matter of cause?

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You could read it with diagnostics as you can all the other sensors, check them for sense. Don't think they are too expensive. Here but note the after market one bottom right. Coolant Temperature Sensor for ECU - Genuine Land Rover at www.rimmerbros.co.uk

GavinDavis said:

Brilliant stuff, thanks Wammers! Ill have a look at it in the light of day tomorrow

Sorry for another dumb question but is it easy to test or would it be cheap enough to risk a new one as a matter of cause?

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You can test the sensor for open circuit with a DVM set to ohms, dangle it in hot water with the DVM leads attached and you should see the resistance drop rapidly. Unfortunately I don't know the resistance value when cold, you may find it in RAVE.

Great stuff, thanks for the info lads

wammers said:

You could read it with diagnostics as you can all the other sensors, check them for sense. Don't think they are too expensive. Here but note the after market one bottom right. Coolant Temperature Sensor for ECU - Genuine Land Rover at www.rimmerbros.co.uk

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Your having a laugh, not expensive !
I think your find rimmers are

Sensor Temperature - STC2299 | Range Rover P38A | Range Rover | British Parts UK

Grit Valve said:

Your having a laugh, not expensive !
I think your find rimmers are

Sensor Temperature - STC2299 | Range Rover P38A | Range Rover | British Parts UK

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The link was to show him what it looked like and inform of part number. It was not a recommendation to buy. I did say they are not expensive, your link proves that statement to be correct.

Would the poor starting when cold have anything to do with me removing the top of the diesel injector pump to replace the seal? It only seems to have gone downhill since then?

Ive just read that the pump need to be calibrated via live data to set the fuelling to 3.5 to 5.5mg on a hot engine with zero load at idle? Does this make any sense to anyone?

And at a real long shot.....i dont suppose anyone in the Midlands area is able to do this if I let go of a few beer tokens in their direction?

Half a story as usual. !
Tut

GavinDavis said:

Would the poor starting when cold have anything to do with me removing the top of the diesel injector pump to replace the seal? It only seems to have gone downhill since then?

Ive just read that the pump need to be calibrated via live data to set the fuelling to 3.5 to 5.5mg on a hot engine with zero load at idle? Does this make any sense to anyone?

And at a real long shot.....i dont suppose anyone in the Midlands area is able to do this if I let go of a few beer tokens in their direction?

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Well yes if you removed the middle section and did not reset it correctly. The top you can take off without a problem unless you played with things inside it. What exactly did you touch? If you start poking around the quantity servo you can harm it. Did you play with the fuel temp sensor?

Apologies gents.....i mentioned that I replaced the leaking seal on the injector pump in my forst post. I probably should have gone into more detail with that.

Basically, I took the top plate off and had to go further down. To the next level of the pump to replace the seal. Everything went according to plan with regards to changing the seal although it was a bit tricky to put it back together again as there is a round bush with a hole in it that slides up and down the length of what I can only presume is the part that regulates the revs/fuel? I manage to relocate the fixed metal nipple thing into the bush hole and hoped that everything went back into place as it should. Maybe this isnt the case?

Really sorry for my dumb explanation guys...

GavinDavis said:

Apologies gents.....i mentioned that I replaced the leaking seal on the injector pump in my forst post. I probably should have gone into more detail with that.

Basically, I took the top plate off and had to go further down. To the next level of the pump to replace the seal. Everything went according to plan with regards to changing the seal although it was a bit tricky to put it back together again as there is a round bush with a hole in it that slides up and down the length of what I can only presume is the part that regulates the revs/fuel? I manage to relocate the fixed metal nipple thing into the bush hole and hoped that everything went back into place as it should. Maybe this isnt the case?

Really sorry for my dumb explanation guys...

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O dear ! You should of marked it, the slightest movement can throw it out you now need the air intake of and your going to have to try various positions to get it right bearing I'm mind if you go the wrong way it will rev to the max!! Best have someone ready to turn it off if it does!!!!