P10 engine history

Funonthefarm · Jan 27, 2020

Hi all, I’ve just join the Land Rover club after searching for many years to find the “right” one! So I have a project... a 51 plate 90 td5 and foresee many questions as the project unfolds. It’s definitely rough and ready and I am planning a bit and bolt re build and re chassis.

One initial question I have is on the p10 engine, I’m aware of the differences between the p10 & p15 but heard that there were changes in the later p10 to solve some of the issues such as head and dowels etc... does anyone know the history of the p10 changes and when they were introduced before the p15 came in? Any help is welcome.

tom1979 · Jan 27, 2020

Land Rover put the plastic dowels in some 15P engines too so I would guess no 10P engine is safe either. Same goes for the oil pump bolt saga. The best thing to do if you are unsure if any of these have been done or not is just do them yourself as preventative maintenance/checks. It sounds like you have your work cut out as it is so these "little extra jobs" shouldn't be too taxing for you

Funonthefarm · Jan 27, 2020

tom1979 said:
Land Rover put the plastic dowels in some 15P engines too so I would guess no 10P engine is safe either. Same goes for the oil pump bolt saga. The best thing to do if you are unsure if any of these have been done or not is just do them yourself as preventative maintenance/checks. It sounds like you have your work cut out as it is so these "little extra jobs" shouldn't be too taxing for you

I see... I thought they had swapped to metal dowels on the p15! I read on here that later p10 were fitted with the later heads to solve some of the issues... is there any way to identify that?

Definitely have my work cut out, but looking forward to the project... and was thinking of doing a bit of an engine overhaul whilst its out... so any pointers as to what to look for and change is more than welcome.

I know the p15 was partly developed for emissions, what's the option on the p10... is there much to chose between them other than the obvious issues.

Funonthefarm · Jan 28, 2020

Funonthefarm said:
I see... I thought they had swapped to metal dowels on the p15! I read on here that later p10 were fitted with the later heads to solve some of the issues... is there any way to identify that?

Definitely have my work cut out, but looking forward to the project... and was thinking of doing a bit of an engine overhaul whilst its out... so any pointers as to what to look for and change is more than welcome.

I know the p15 was partly developed for emissions, what's the option on the p10... is there much to chose between them other than the obvious issues.

Edit: I know the p15 was partly developed for emissions, what's the opinion on the p10... is there much to chose between them p10 & p15 other than the obvious issues. Also what are key jobs to do on the p10?

Brown · Jan 28, 2020

Just to add a new direction to this conversation, there was some discussion on here a few weeks ago about putting metal dowels on a plastic dowel engine causing problems. They're around the right diameter, but maybe the metal ones are apt to punch through the soft alloy head into oil or water galleries when the head bolts are fully tightened. Indeed, Land Rover issued a technical bulletin to its dealerships telling them not to put metal dowels into plastic-dowel engines for this reason.

Aside from that, the TD5 engine can soldier on for hundreds of thousands of miles. They do appreciate regular oil and filter changes, and the injector loom that goes inside the cylinder head needs changing reasonably regularly as it's inclined to absorb oil, causing rough running and cutting out. A fault code reader is very useful. The TD5 is not quite fully OBD compliant so you'll have to stump up for a dedicated reader like a Nanocom, Hawkeye or Lynx. Sometimes people on here club together and buy in bulk which gives a saving over the usual price. Otherwise you're just fencing in the dark.

jamesmartin · Jan 28, 2020

putting steel dowels in wont make a head gasket last longer they are only there to locate the gasket exactly whilst fitting head,head will still move and bend up if over heated

TD5Tom · Jan 28, 2020

jamesmartin said:
putting steel dowels in wont make a head gasket last longer they are only there to locate the gasket exactly whilst fitting head,head will still move and bend up if over heated

I thought the plastic dowls cause the head to slip and overheat.

Brown · Jan 28, 2020

Here's the discussion about putting metal dowels in a plastic dowel engine. In this case they may have punched through into a coolant passage.
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/coolant-in-sump-after-headgasket.352857/

jamesmartin · Jan 28, 2020

TD5Tom said:
I thought the plastic dowls cause the head to slip and overheat.

no,head bolts clamp head down so hard it cant slip, but it can expand too much if overheated in which case it will bow up around the middle, if you check overheated head with a strait edge youll find the middle of the head has the greatest gap, that process can break plastic dowels but steel dowels wont prevent it

Funonthefarm · Jan 28, 2020

Ok... so any benefit to the metal dowels?

From my understanding the p15 had a different head to solve the porosity issue and they fitted the metal dowels? And that some later p10s had the same....

but it apparently some p15 had plastic dowels... which would suggest several different head versions where made...

so this is why I’m trying to trace the “history” of changes through both models... to try and make sense of what Land Rover did and why...

jamesmartin · Jan 28, 2020

Funonthefarm said:
Ok... so any benefit to the metal dowels?

From my understanding the p15 had a different head to solve the porosity issue? And that some later p10s had the same....

but it apparatus some p15 had plastic dowels... which would suggest several different head versions where made...

so this is why I’m trying to trace the “history” of changes through both models... to try and make sense of what Land Rover did and why...

the 15p head, has the internal return fuel gallery removed and an external hose used instead,plastic dowels are easier too break if your not careful fitting head,i use an engine crane,ive found later head is as prone to fail as much as earlier but then i wouldnt say it was that big an issue,like 300tdi once was

Funonthefarm · Jan 28, 2020

jamesmartin said:
the 15p head, has the internal return fuel gallery removed and an external hose used instead,plastic dowels are easier too break if your not careful fitting head,i use an engine crane,ive found later head is as prone to fail as much as earlier but then i wouldnt say it was that big an issue,like 300tdi once was

so... was the later p10 head the same as the p15. Or was there another version of the p15 head later...

jamesmartin · Jan 28, 2020

only early and later head to my knowledge

Funonthefarm · Jan 28, 2020

jamesmartin said:
only early and later head to my knowledge

Is it right that they did use the later head on the 10p?

jamesmartin · Jan 28, 2020

10p engine had early head 15p later head

P10 engine history

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