Oil warning light and poor braking

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brianconwy said:
I take it you don't mean taking the sump off regularly?
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I'd imagine a bad batch of HT bolts, or initial overtensioning leading to fatigue failure, as said a common fail, new correct grade bolt, fitted and not over stressed and use a loctite thread locker, should see it right, the puny little chain looks like it would be a risk on a bicycle, what happened to good old gear drive, but I guess it is what it is.
 
Do you have a pic of the inside of your sump? Interested to see if the oil pump bolt chewed into the sump, which then caused it to sheer.
Chain drive oil pumps are pretty common, Honda's use them, nothing inherently wrong with them, as long as they are designed properly!
Mark
 
markomate2 said:
Do you have a pic of the inside of your sump? Interested to see if the oil pump bolt chewed into the sump, which then caused it to sheer.
Chain drive oil pumps are pretty common, Honda's use them, nothing inherently wrong with them, as long as they are designed properly!
Mark
Click to expand...
Just a comment on the puny chain drives on a lot of hi tech engines these days, BMW diesels, Td5's, seem to have an issue, I ran XJ Jag engines for years and although the 2 stage timing chains stretched and rattled a bit after lots of work as far as I know they were not prone to breaking.
I understand why they dont like heavy chains due to inertia issues, but from what I'm seeing they are becoming near as accursed a thing as the rubber timing belt.
And for a thing as vital as an oil pump I like the direct on crankshaft drive of the 300Tdi or the cam driven pump that many other engines use, if the oil pump stops so to usually does the engine.
 
Gazbo said:
I'd imagine a bad batch of HT bolts, or initial overtensioning leading to fatigue failure, as said a common fail,
Click to expand...

The "normal" issue with the TD5 that leads to a failure like this, is normally the bolt unscrews. Historically a number of earlier cars appear to have been assembled with no threadlock on the bolt. Although a number of newer '02 / '03 MY, do appear to have the same issue and have had similar failures.

For the sake of a few hours, and has been suggested a number of times on this site is to check and verify / replace the bolt with a new one that has the threadlock already fitted as per the link posted in post #2..........

Cheers
 
neilly said:
The "normal" issue with the TD5 that leads to a failure like this, is normally the bolt unscrews. Historically a number of earlier cars appear to have been assembled with no threadlock on the bolt. Although a number of newer '02 / '03 MY, do appear to have the same issue and have had similar failures.

For the sake of a few hours, and has been suggested a number of times on this site is to check and verify / replace the bolt with a new one that has the threadlock already fitted as per the link posted in post #2..........

Cheers
Click to expand...

ref the oil pump, i don't know how they are between the d2 and d3 but also on mine there is a lot of broken oil pumps casing catastrophic engine failure

got mine replaced , also noticed that mine was leaking , seems on the d3 the corner breaks off the casing and goes into the belts

here's a few pics

belt pics is mine, also got the water pump replaced at the same time

hope u don't mind me putting the post and pics in , as i know this post is for a d2

IMG_0934.JPG
IMG_0935.JPG
IMG_1033.JPG
 
Gazbo said:
I'd imagine a bad batch of HT bolts, or initial overtensioning leading to fatigue failure, as said a common fail, new correct grade bolt, fitted and not over stressed and use a loctite thread locker, should see it right, the puny little chain looks like it would be a risk on a bicycle, what happened to good old gear drive, but I guess it is what it is.
Click to expand...

A lack of locktite type adhesive on the bolt on original assembly, but I have heard of new replacement bolts from LR, with yellow adhesive already on them failing too .

If you put your own threadlock on, remember to clean and degrease the bolt and hole and I usually wait 24hrs before refilling.
 
If I change the bolt then I will put plenty of threadlock on and torque it correctly and take my chances after that. I suppose it depends n the mileage you do and the oil change interval.
 
sorry for the late replies, took the day off to start the repair.
New chain, sprocket, bolt with thread lock on it and sump gasket now in my possession. £70.
So far I have the top end stripped down,
20170424_130454_001.jpg

Crank shaft pulley removed along with all the bolts that hold the timing chain cover on, except the one that goes down from the top right hand side into the top of the cover, it's just a rod threaded on both ends with a nut on the top. I've got the nut off but i think the timing cover is stuck on with gasket seal and I've had enough for one day, besides I've thread locked the nut back on to see if I can get the stud out.
20170424_203827.jpg


Good spot on the sump, it did suffer a bit of damage.

20170424_201626.jpg


Thanks for everyones input.
 
Speckydude said:
A lack of locktite type adhesive on the bolt on original assembly, but I have heard of new replacement bolts from LR, with yellow adhesive already on them failing too .

If you put your own threadlock on, remember to clean and degrease the bolt and hole and I usually wait 24hrs before refilling.
Click to expand...
From what I'm seeing, some one on the engine assembly line was not on the ball, are all Td5's afflicted with this little oversight or did LR finally figure out that a RH thread in a place where a LH thread or mechanical lock tab should be was a bad design?
Thread locker technology saves the day again, the degrease idea is essential and they have excellent primers to use where scrupulously clean is not possible.
Can't even begin to imagine how many Td5's must have been destroyed by this oil pump drive failure, can't run an engine long without oil circulation.
 
Gazbo said:
From what I'm seeing, some one on the engine assembly line was not on the ball, are all Td5's afflicted with this little oversight or did LR finally figure out that a RH thread in a place where a LH thread or mechanical lock tab should be was a bad design?
Thread locker technology saves the day again, the degrease idea is essential and they have excellent primers to use where scrupulously clean is not possible.
Can't even begin to imagine how many Td5's must have been destroyed by this oil pump drive failure, can't run an engine long without oil circulation.
Click to expand...

There is a design doodit that shuts the engine down if the oil pump fails, but I'm sure that may be slow in reacting.
 
The doodit may allow a certain distance to allow for the oil already on the components. I drove no more than 1/4 mile home but when I tried to start it to run it up the ramps it turned over but wouldn't run.
 
well the threadlock was a complete waste of time, I remembered an old trick from somewhere re twisting a piece of wire around the thread so with paper clip in hand I tried again and it worked a treat.

20170425_194545_001.jpg


Timing cover is now removed along with a few sneaky pipes that got in the way, hopefully tomorrow nights job is to fit new chain, sprocket and bolt and since I'm away for a few days the threadlock will have plenty of time to set before it gets reassembled. Oh and not forgetting to clean the thread on the pump properly.

Question.
I also noticed some info about the timing chain having 2 black links as a guide to where the timing marks are and I appear to have a gold one. Does anyone know if some have gold and some have black or do all chains have both and mine are just not where they should be when timed up?

gstuart, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not working on your D3 but glad it's all ok now.
 
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