NOTE October Unofficial CHANGE OF VENUE

On or around Fri, 07 Oct 2005 19:49:05 +0100, Steve
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Austin Shackles wrote:
>> On or around Fri, 07 Oct 2005 10:03:24 +0100, Steve Taylor
>> <[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:
>>
>>>Steve Taylor wrote:
>>>, and I do have a firepit I fabricated too, though
>>>>making that portable is probably a project in its own right.
>>>1/2 sheet of 3mm steel and lots of fun with a plasma cutter
>>>http://www.thetaylorfamily.org.uk/unofficial/firepit.JPG
>>>
>>
>> hehe. Put wheels on it and a hitch...
>
>Since current plans are for me and Bob-the-101 to travel on our own on
>Friday, there is room for it....
>
>We need to de-forest somewhere to feed it - the pit is 2 foot square.

I might manage to bring some firewood, we've got quite a lot.

on second thoughts, if you can swing past this way en route, you could
collect some. There are sundry branches which've not yet been sawn up in
the way in the shed. I'll be around at various times on Friday.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"My centre is giving way, my right is in retreat; situation excellent.
I shall attack. - Marshal Foch (1851 - 1929)

On or around Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:07:04 +0100, Mother <"@ {mother}
@"@101fc.net> enlightened us thusly:

>On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 09:56:59 +0100, Steve Taylor
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I was intending to fabricate one of those thar' woodburners in a propane
>>tank jobbies though,
>
>I think you mentioned this before, and I was going to ask if there's a
>safe way of cutting an old tank with an angle grinder... Erm, safely.
>
>I was going to just vent it off, then get stuck in, but fear I may
>have left some vital point out that may potentially kill me and remove
>the equity from my neighbours property...

You talking about propane tanks?

I've done 'em with oxy-propane cutting torch. You need to remove the valve
so that there's a hole, and then pour some water into it (only about a
pint). I assume the reasoning is that the heat evaporates water and the
steam drives out residual gas.

some of 'em went "foom" a bit. But none actually exploded.

and for those who WTK, this was in a scrapyard, making scrap bottles
suitable to be weighed in as scrap. Weighing in intact ones was strongly
unpopular - they tend to explode in the "frag", with much bang.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Blue: The sky is blue for a reason. Blue light is a source of strength
and harmony in the cosmos. Create a blue light in your life by
telephoning the police
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:19:05 +0100, "Nige"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Might i recommend a truly superb film for this season - 'downfall' it is superb & gives a very good
>veiwpoint as to what the hell most Germans must have felt in 1945.

**** me Nige, you getting a bit cultured? I thought Bruno Ganz was
actually very credible, but overall reckoned the slant was ever so
slightly flawed in a few ways - not least the overt sympathy given to
the Nazi doctrine.

Plausible, in places very 'human' and an adept use of some rather
incredible and heartrendering humour, but didn't leave me feeling
anything I've not previously felt about the abomination of the War,
the Cause of the War, and the reflection that Germany has has to go
through over the last 60 odd years. Interestingly though, German
friends have _really_ slated it. I do, however, think that this is an
'age related' thing for many.

>Either that, or the tru film of '05 - the wrecking of phone by purple anger!

There was only one DVD of that - may produce more one day, with a good
gangstarappa soundtrack. Sort of 'Pimp My Phone'...


--
"We have gone from a world of concentrated knowledge and wisdom to one
of distributed ignorance. And we know and understand less while being
increasingly capable." Prof. Peter Cochrane, formerly of BT Labs
In memory of Brian {Hamilton Kelly} who logged off 15th September 2005

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:50:45 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> wrote:

>So shall I bring "All Quiet..." or not?

Yes.

During stardate Fri, 07 Oct 2005 21:56:31 +0100, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> uttered the imortal words:

>You talking about propane tanks?
>
>I've done 'em with oxy-propane cutting torch. You need to remove the valve
>so that there's a hole, and then pour some water into it (only about a
>pint). I assume the reasoning is that the heat evaporates water and the
>steam drives out residual gas.
>
>some of 'em went "foom" a bit. But none actually exploded.
>
>and for those who WTK, this was in a scrapyard, making scrap bottles
>suitable to be weighed in as scrap. Weighing in intact ones was strongly
>unpopular - they tend to explode in the "frag", with much bang.

Aren't they threaded the wrong way too (so to speak).

I had the same idea earlier in the week, saw a propane tank abandoned
in a laybay, went back 2 days later on a test run in morph to collect
it and liberate it...some git had nicked it.... can't leave anything
around these days ;0)

I viewed it as fate...probably did me a favour. My prefered choice was
for filling it with sand then plasma it.... then again perhaphs not
such a good idea when all that air hits the sand... at least it would
have been shinny!

Lee D
--
Success is going from failure to failure without a loss of enthusiam.
Winston Churchill

www.lrproject.com
'76 101 Camper
'64 88" IIa V8 Auto
'97 Disco ES Auto LPG'd
'01 Laguna

Lee_D wrote:

> Aren't they threaded the wrong way too (so to speak).
>
Not AFAIK - that's Oxy isn't it ?

Steve

On or around Fri, 07 Oct 2005 23:42:49 +0100, Steve
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>Lee_D wrote:
>
>> Aren't they threaded the wrong way too (so to speak).
>>
>Not AFAIK - that's Oxy isn't it ?

fuel tanks are mostly LH thread for the connectors. I think the valve
screws in on a RH thread though. But it's a long time ago...
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)

>> Kerosine (heating oil, parafin) etc has about 10kWhr/litre of energy
>> in it. When your looking at the rating plate to see how much
>> electricity it needs it'll probably tell you it's heat output as
>> well. It might quote BTUs rather than kW/Hrs. Divide BTUs by 3412 to
>> get kW/Hrs.

According to the sticker on the side, it produces 39kW and requires
2.86lt/hr.

I'll leave it to everyone else to figure out quantities required.

Graham

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:08:34 +0100, Graham G wrote:

> According to the sticker on the side, it produces 39kW and requires
> 2.86lt/hr.

Ball park for my guessitmations then. B-)

> I'll leave it to everyone else to figure out quantities required.

20l will give a shade under 7hrs running time. Heating oil (kerosene
28sec) is around 35p/l ATM, wonder if it would run on red diesel?
Thats a bit thicker at 35sec, not sure of the price of red these days.
Might be bit smelly though and so might heating oil compared to "pure"
paraffin.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Mon, 10 Oct 2005 09:44:51 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:08:34 +0100, Graham G wrote:
>
>> According to the sticker on the side, it produces 39kW and requires
>> 2.86lt/hr.
>
>Ball park for my guessitmations then. B-)
>
>> I'll leave it to everyone else to figure out quantities required.
>
>20l will give a shade under 7hrs running time. Heating oil (kerosene
>28sec) is around 35p/l ATM, wonder if it would run on red diesel?
>Thats a bit thicker at 35sec, not sure of the price of red these days.
>Might be bit smelly though and so might heating oil compared to "pure"
>paraffin.

Provided I can find the jerry can, I can bring that much.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt"
(confound the men who have made our remarks before us.)
Aelius Donatus (4th Cent.) [St. Jerome, Commentary on Ecclesiastes]

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 08:08:34 +0100, Graham G wrote:
>
>> According to the sticker on the side, it produces 39kW and requires
>> 2.86lt/hr.
>
> Ball park for my guessitmations then. B-)
>
>> I'll leave it to everyone else to figure out quantities required.
>
> 20l will give a shade under 7hrs running time. Heating oil (kerosene
> 28sec) is around 35p/l ATM, wonder if it would run on red diesel?
> Thats a bit thicker at 35sec, not sure of the price of red these days.
> Might be bit smelly though and so might heating oil compared to "pure"
> paraffin.

Have a second one that runs on red. Its ok for heating somewhere well
ventilated and that you don't need to occupy at the same time, cos the fumes
get a bit much. Strictly kerosine or paraffin this one, its much more
acceptable.

> 20l will give a shade under 7hrs running time. Heating oil (kerosene
> 28sec) is around 35p/l ATM, wonder if it would run on red diesel?
> Thats a bit thicker at 35sec, not sure of the price of red these days.

Got up to 42p, has dropped back to around 38ppl now. Was about 17ppl this
time last year.

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:44:54 +0100, Graham G wrote:

> Got up to 42p, has dropped back to around 38ppl now. Was about 17ppl
> this time last year.

I'm surprised you say red was 17p/l 12 months ago. Kero wasn't that
low, ITSR falling of my chair when ordering and being quoted 24p or
27p/l... As for the recent mid 30's ARGH!.

--
Cheers [email protected]
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On or around Mon, 10 Oct 2005 23:52:06 +0100 (BST), "Dave Liquorice"
<[email protected]> enlightened us thusly:

>On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:44:54 +0100, Graham G wrote:
>
>> Got up to 42p, has dropped back to around 38ppl now. Was about 17ppl
>> this time last year.
>
>I'm surprised you say red was 17p/l 12 months ago. Kero wasn't that
>low, ITSR falling of my chair when ordering and being quoted 24p or
>27p/l... As for the recent mid 30's ARGH!.

argh indeed.

we used a few years ago to be able to get C2 kero for a fraction under *10p*
per litre, provided we bought 2200+ litres. smaller amounts were about
12-13p.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
Satisfying: Satisfy your inner child by eating ten tubes of Smarties
from the Little Book of Complete B***ocks by Alistair Beaton.

"Dave Liquorice" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 22:44:54 +0100, Graham G wrote:
>
>> Got up to 42p, has dropped back to around 38ppl now. Was about 17ppl
>> this time last year.
>
> I'm surprised you say red was 17p/l 12 months ago. Kero wasn't that
> low, ITSR falling of my chair when ordering and being quoted 24p or
> 27p/l... As for the recent mid 30's ARGH!.

It might have been 18mths ago then, but it still wouldn't have been much
more. Its got the ag industry worried. My fathers tractor is quite small
(comparitively; 120hp) and averages 14lt/hr, which is considered to be
economical. When you do the sums working on an average year amounting to
800hrs on his small farm, it adds up. The big farms I sell to use upwards of
1000lt per day through harvest, you could say 35-40000 lt per year, suddenly
it becomes a major cost to the business. The ironic thing is, that brussels
have forced tractor manufacturers to cut emissions, to achieve this new
complient engines burn two thirds more fuel than non-complient ones. I'm
sure the impact on the environment must be equal.

What irritates me is that the technology exists for biodiesel from oil seed
rape and the like, which would give farmers a valuable income in the tough
climate we are in, and be more environmentally sound, yet the government
won't give the investment or incentives to oil companies to do it.

And don't even get me started on the costs for hauliers...

On or around Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:44:50 +0100, "Graham G" <[email protected]>
enlightened us thusly:

>What irritates me is that the technology exists for biodiesel from oil seed
>rape and the like, which would give farmers a valuable income in the tough
>climate we are in, and be more environmentally sound, yet the government
>won't give the investment or incentives to oil companies to do it.

There's a basic flaw in that one, though, sadly - not enough crop-growing
land. You can substitute a small percentage of fossil fuel with bio...
Also, Oilseed rape is not in fact the most rewarding crop to get oil from,
according to a list I saw somewhere.

But even growing the more effective oil crops, there ain't enough land -
you'd end up competing with food-growing area.

'course, you can make a good argument for there being too many people.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.net my opinions are just that
"'Tis a mad world, my masters" John Taylor (1580-1633) Western Voyage, 1

In article <[email protected]>, Graham G <[email protected]>
writes

>The ironic thing is, that brussels
>have forced tractor manufacturers to cut emissions, to achieve this new
>complient engines burn two thirds more fuel than non-complient ones. I'm
>sure the impact on the environment must be equal.

It's worse - catalytic convertors have quite nasty chemicals in them,
and even more so once they've come to the end of their useful life (they
concentrate trace chemicals, or so I'm led to believe). So whilst you
may affect the vehicle's direct emissions, you have a different disposal
problem (and cost) instead.

>What irritates me is that the technology exists for biodiesel from oil seed
>rape and the like, which would give farmers a valuable income in the tough
>climate we are in, and be more environmentally sound, yet the government
>won't give the investment or incentives to oil companies to do it.

I'm hoping to convert the 110 (TD) this month - basically the two-tank
and pre-heat adaptation, so that I can choose what to run on.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

In article <[email protected]>, Austin Shackles
<[email protected]> writes
>On or around Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:44:50 +0100, "Graham G" <[email protected]>
>enlightened us thusly:
>
>>What irritates me is that the technology exists for biodiesel from oil seed
>>rape and the like, which would give farmers a valuable income in the tough
>>climate we are in, and be more environmentally sound, yet the government
>>won't give the investment or incentives to oil companies to do it.
>
>There's a basic flaw in that one, though, sadly - not enough crop-growing
>land. You can substitute a small percentage of fossil fuel with bio...
>Also, Oilseed rape is not in fact the most rewarding crop to get oil from,
>according to a list I saw somewhere.

Diesels were designed originally for peanut oil.

I can't see why waste cooking oil shouldn't be used. It's carbon
neutral, and whilst it won't solve the demand issue WRT fuel oils, it
must help.

Regards,

Simonm.

--
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK www.ukip.org
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU www.members.aol.com/eurofaq
GT250A'76 R80/RT'86 110CSW TD'88 www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

Austin Shackles wrote:

> There's a basic flaw in that one, though, sadly - not enough crop-growing
> land. You can substitute a small percentage of fossil fuel with bio...
> Also, Oilseed rape is not in fact the most rewarding crop to get oil from,
> according to a list I saw somewhere.

I saw the relevant yield data somewhere, and I think it WOULD be
feasible to grow serious oil crops - hell you can get oil from algae
too. Still take a lot of engineering and agricultural research though.

Steve

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> It's worse - catalytic convertors have quite nasty chemicals in them,
> and even more so once they've come to the end of their useful life (they
> concentrate trace chemicals, or so I'm led to believe).

They contain platinum, which lots of people are VERY keen to re-cycle.
There can't be much left in way of waste chemicals at the end of their
lives, because they are catalytic converters, so they do their job on
the stuff passing through, without being used themselves.

Steve