Norman the 90 is making a funny noise.

frog hopper · Mar 31, 2023

As above, last couple of days I have noticed a bit of a chuffing noise, might have been going on for a while as you cant hear it with the radio competing with the rest of the noises a 200 Tdi 90 makes.
OK, so 1990 200 Tdi 90.
Around 180k miles.
Disco tranny box.
From start up everything sounds as normal, then as things warm up there is a sort of chuff, chuff, chuff noise roughly from the bell housing area. This is just from me sat behind the wheel, too wet and windy to get under anything at the mo.
If I depress the clutch pedal the noise goes wether rolling or not, exactly the same with the tranny box in neutral. I am rather thinking it could be the clutch thrust bearing starting to go, if so what happens if it lets go altogether? One thing I shall do is check the fluid levels of both boxes, last done 9 months ago and no leaking on the hardstanding, but worth a punt just in case. Of course the easy fix is to turn the radio up a bit and ignore it, one sure way of finding out what it is.

lynall · Mar 31, 2023

I reckon you have a head gasket blown back of number 4 cylinder, if you look you might see the marking of the paint on the bulkhead.

200 failing this way is pretty common, they do not pressurise the coolant like the turdy 300 model

Cheap fix if you can diy.

frog hopper · Mar 31, 2023

lynall said:
I reckon you have a head gasket blown back of number 4 cylinder, if you look you might see the marking of the paint on the bulkhead.

200 failing this way is pretty common, they do not pressurise the coolant like the turdy 300 model
Cheap fix if you can diy.

That would be a good outcome, easier than a clutch job, but the noise stops when the clutch pedal is depressed. Will have to have a butchers at the bulkhead tomorrow.

lynall · Apr 1, 2023

frog hopper said:
That would be a good outcome, easier than a clutch job, but the noise stops when the clutch pedal is depressed. Will have to have a butchers at the bulkhead tomorrow.

Nothing worse than a clutch job on an old land rover!
If it is clutch related I find it easier to take the engine out, unless you have access to a 2 or 4 post hoist even then it is still an arse job.

Brown · Apr 1, 2023

I had a farty sort of noise a few years ago on my TD5. It turned out that one of the bolts holding my EGR blanking plate on the exhaust manifold had lost its head and there was an exhaust leak. It was most noticeable when the engine was under load. It may just be that the noise is coming through via the transmission tunnel or the gear lever hole because that's the easiest path for it. So it's worth having a look at all the exhaust gaskets and joints too. These tend to get replaced when replacing the head gasket anyway, but could be worth some attention.

frog hopper · Apr 12, 2023

Pretty certain now that the noise is from within the bell housing, so in all probability the clutch thrust bearing. I guess sometime in the very near future I will have to split everything and have a look, and if I am doing that I might just as well change the clutch. I shall borrow a mates engine crane and shift the engine forward to do the job and have a few questions for you.
How far do I need to move the engine? if it can be done without taking the rad etc out would be less work obvs.
Is there anything else I should think of doing at the same time? bearings/seals/shafts etc? cross drilled input shaft perhaps - though I don't really know what that is or if there is a better solution.

tottot · Apr 13, 2023

Front grill off, rad frame with intercooler out. Now it is straight forward to pull engine all the way out on the crane or push the truck back some once engine is released from bellhousing.
As well as the clutch now is the time to do the rear crank seal if there is any sign of leakage. Last time I did mine I did it anyway as although not leaking some 10 years since was last in there. There was a leak but from gear box input shaft, easy to do. Use a proper original Dowty seal on the crank and renew the clutch housing to engine block gasket. [ seal fits into the housing ] [ some do this while housing still on engine but I prefer to remove and fit seal while housing flat on bench.]
Other items clutch release arm, check its pivot point for out of round wear and replace if worn. Also good time to renew clutch slave and any pipe work.
Hardest part can be getting engine box to mate, a levelling bar on the engine crane is useful. Having an extra pair of eyes and hands helps a lot with this bit of the job..

tottot · Apr 13, 2023

PS Mine was making a noise and clutch a bit heavy because the release fork had lost one of its pads.

frog hopper · Apr 15, 2023

Thanks for that, I have decided to pull the engine, and while having a look see I might as well replace the clutch and associated parts at the same time.
After all, even if it isn't the clutch then at least I will know it's all renewed.

boguing · Apr 15, 2023

I've only just seen this. I'm puzzled about the quietness with the t box in neutral. I don't see how that really affects the release bearing?

What happens with the main box in neutral, t box engaged and clutch up?

Here's a thought . Back uj or sliding joint on the front prop doesn't mind flexing but creaks when driven/driving.

frog hopper · Apr 15, 2023

boguing said:
I've only just seen this. I'm puzzled about the quietness with the t box in neutral. I don't see how that really affects the release bearing?

What happens with the main box in neutral, t box engaged and clutch up?

Here's a thought . Back uj or sliding joint on the front prop doesn't mind flexing but creaks when driven/driving.

From cold on parking bay, no more noises than usual in or out of gear.
After drive for couple of miles a rythmic chuffing noise, engine speed related, push clutch down and noise stops, no difference if free wheeling or parked. Noise is there wether in gear or not, t'box engaged or in neutral, clutch down and noise stops after a second or two.
Something that has been happening for some time but couldn't quite remember how long it was happening was a noise when switching off, I could faintly hear something spinning down to a stop, stopping after 2 or 3 seconds, never really thought it could be connected but I really can't think what this could be. I do not have a std fan on engine, I have a Kenlow fan on rad, almost never used so not that.

tottot · Apr 16, 2023

If the truck is stood engine running then the only other things turning [clutch out] are the box input shaft and lay shaft but the release bearing can be just touching the clutch enough to make it spin. It is at this time one that is going a bit dry/worn tends to make noise. Clutch in and the box input shaft slows and may stop depending if there is some residual drag. The release bearing is now under load and if not too bad go quite or just grumble some.
How many miles since clutch last changed? Any juddering is you slowly let clutch out?

boguing · Apr 16, 2023

frog hopper said:
From cold on parking bay, no more noises than usual in or out of gear.
After drive for couple of miles a rythmic chuffing noise, engine speed related, push clutch down and noise stops, no difference if free wheeling or parked. Noise is there wether in gear or not, t'box engaged or in neutral, clutch down and noise stops after a second or two.
Something that has been happening for some time but couldn't quite remember how long it was happening was a noise when switching off, I could faintly hear something spinning down to a stop, stopping after 2 or 3 seconds, never really thought it could be connected but I really can't think what this could be. I do not have a std fan on engine, I have a Kenlow fan on rad, almost never used so not that.

As usual I missed a part of your first post and misread another, so thanks for the clarification.

frog hopper · Apr 16, 2023

tottot said:
If the truck is stood engine running then the only other things turning [clutch out] are the box input shaft and lay shaft but the release bearing can be just touching the clutch enough to make it spin. It is at this time one that is going a bit dry/worn tends to make noise. Clutch in and the box input shaft slows and may stop depending if there is some residual drag. The release bearing is now under load and if not too bad go quite or just grumble some.
How many miles since clutch last changed? Any juddering is you slowly let clutch out?

Clutch last changed in April 2014, 30k miles since then, some heavy towing/recovery, fair bit of hard green laning. (a lot of soft g'laning)
As far as I can remember replacement was Valeo, release bearing was the plastic version.
No juddering as clutch is let out slowly.
Laying underneath with a socket extension to my ear, the noise seems mostly from the bell housing, though I know noise will travel.

boguing · Apr 16, 2023

Another thing that doesn't seem to fit with it being clutch/bearing is that you can describe it as chuff chuff. Engine speed is surely too high to discern that? So what bits rotate at a stepped down speed at rest in neutral? Camshaft, vacuum pump and things driven by the belts on the front.

frog hopper · Apr 16, 2023

boguing said:
Another thing that doesn't seem to fit with it being clutch/bearing is that you can describe it as chuff chuff. Engine speed is surely too high to discern that? So what bits rotate at a stepped down speed at rest in neutral? Camshaft, vacuum pump and things driven by the belts on the front.

But,,,,,,,,,,the noise will stop when the clutch is depressed.

boguing · Apr 16, 2023

I know, 'sabuggerinnit?

Norman the 90 is making a funny noise.

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