Newbie query about 90 lights

Hi all,
I've just purchased my first 90 and at risk of seeming a complete idiot have a couple of questions I'm hoping people here can help me with. I gather my beast is a bit of a bitsa, it's a 1987 pickup that was originally a V8 Petrol and is now a TD5. I've just had a local garage replace the brakes for me and they found the rear axel was from a 110...it's had various upgrades and modifications by previous owners which I'm slowly getting to know. My queries are about the various lights. There are three metal flick switches, 2 on the left hand side of the dash and one on the right which I gather are for the various additional LED / Halogen lights. The two switches on the left appear to be for the lights on the roof bar; straight lights and fogs; at any rate I flicked them and those are the lights that came on! The one on the left of the roof isn't currently working but as I can see condensation on the inside I'm guessing water ingress is probably the issue. Any thoughts if these are sealed units? -Do I need replace the whole light or might it just be a bulb?
I'm assuming the single flick switch is for the larger pair of WIPAC 4x4 lights mounted in the bumper bar as so far I've failed to get them to turn on. When you flick the switch I can hear what sounds like a small motor starting up (?), and a tiny red bulb in the end of the metal switch flashes.
Am I being thick? Is there something else I should be doing? I've had the engine running and all other lights on including the standard fogs on the headlamp stalk. There's a photo attached showing this switch and also the Landy from the front so you can see the big WIPAC lights I mean. I've spent hours googling this but haven't found any light switches that look like this, particularly with the little red bulb in the end.
I also find it odd that this flick switch comes with 'noise' when turned on but the switches for the lights on the roof don't??
My second question is probably more straightforward...what is the rocker switch on the dash showing a lamp and a clock? I've tried engaging it in both positions (top down, bottom down) and haven't noticed anything happening anywhere?!
All suggestions gratefully recieved!




Single flick switch I assume is for the bumper lights above, and what is the rocker switch below?




Centre WIPAC bumper lights not coming on

The rocker switch should turn the dash lights off. Also turns on the interior light.

As for other problems/switches flick them & hope for the best

Aha! Thanks Hicap Phill, yep, I've spent most of the afternoon flicking switches, getting out of the vehicle, walking around it and trying to see if anything has turned on or off! I thought it might be something to do with the dashboard light, in which case it's confirmed that that bulb is buggered too! The interior light does come on when the door is open, but I don't recall it coming on when that switch was depressed. On the other hand it's not a terribly bright bulb so I may not have noticed. I'll have another look at that tomorrow.

Margo Ledbetter said:

Aha! Thanks Hicap Phill, yep, I've spent most of the afternoon flicking switches, getting out of the vehicle, walking around it and trying to see if anything has turned on or off! I thought it might be something to do with the dashboard light, in which case it's confirmed that that bulb is buggered too! The interior light does come on when the door is open, but I don't recall it coming on when that switch was depressed. On the other hand it's not a terribly bright bulb so I may not have noticed. I'll have another look at that tomorrow.

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Are you sure the dash lights aren't working? They aren't very bright, could be you can't see them in the daylight.

You are wise to keep the engine running while testing electrics. And be wary of the aftermarket lights in general, the electrical systems on these aren't the best, and don't always react well to extra loads.

Tempted to report your earlier post for having Defender badge on your Ninety! But I didn't!

pmsl, thanks Turboman, to be fair...more of this one is probably post Defender than pre Defender now! I've been trying to find a paintcode for the green and was advised it'd be on the door jamb; it isn't. And having spent the day giving it a damn good clean and hoover (definitely the first time it's been done this century and quite possibly the last too) I found the interior colour under the rear rubber mat was pale blue. If I enter the reg number into most parts suppliers it comes back with a question mark. I'll have another look with that switch while it's in an unlit garage, as you say the output isn't great.
Do you have any experience with the WIPAC lights? I'm intrigued about the noise when I flick the switch, it certainly sounds like something is trying to happen, but I've never heard lights with their own motor before!
I can see a Haynes manual (or similar) is going to be advisable, the question is how many do I need to cover all the alterations?!

Margo Ledbetter said:

pmsl, thanks Turboman, to be fair...more of this one is probably post Defender than pre Defender now! I've been trying to find a paintcode for the green and was advised it'd be on the door jamb; it isn't. And having spent the day giving it a damn good clean and hoover (definitely the first time it's been done this century and quite possibly the last too) I found the interior colour under the rear rubber mat was pale blue. If I enter the reg number into most parts suppliers it comes back with a question mark. I'll have another look with that switch while it's in an unlit garage, as you say the output isn't great.
Do you have any experience with the WIPAC lights? I'm intrigued about the noise when I flick the switch, it certainly sounds like something is trying to happen, but I've never heard lights with their own motor before!
I can see a Haynes manual (or similar) is going to be advisable, the question is how many do I need to cover all the alterations?!

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Like Series, Ninety/One Tens only came in a basic range of colours, blue, green, limestone, maybe one or two others, with white roofs.
And they had black wheel arch eyebrows, the "colour Co-ordinated" ones came later.

Wipac spots, I have seen problems on other people's vehicles, they draw a lot of power, as can be felt from the heat they give off while switched on. I don't know what the motor is trying to do, maybe lower the beams. not sure.
On my own vehicles, I always remove such items immediately. The standard lights are adequate to the fairly modest performance of the vehicles.

The lights above the windscreen look like LEDs, they will draw much less power. But be aware that they probably aren't legal for road use, and will dazzle other drivers if switched on while on the roads. Off road use only.

No offence, but the bonnet with the ventilator looks a bit tacky as well, sort of trying to look like a Mitsubishi.

Margo Ledbetter said:

pmsl, thanks Turboman, to be fair...more of this one is probably post Defender than pre Defender now! I've been trying to find a paintcode for the green and was advised it'd be on the door jamb; it isn't. And having spent the day giving it a damn good clean and hoover (definitely the first time it's been done this century and quite possibly the last too) I found the interior colour under the rear rubber mat was pale blue. If I enter the reg number into most parts suppliers it comes back with a question mark. I'll have another look with that switch while it's in an unlit garage, as you say the output isn't great.
Do you have any experience with the WIPAC lights? I'm intrigued about the noise when I flick the switch, it certainly sounds like something is trying to happen, but I've never heard lights with their own motor before!
I can see a Haynes manual (or similar) is going to be advisable, the question is how many do I need to cover all the alterations?!

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Forgot. Haynes manuals are OK for basics. But a reprint genuine 90/110 manual from Brooklands Books is better, and can be ordered online for delivery.

As far as I know, no manual covers aftermarket kit, although the makers might supply manuals on an item by item basis.

The Wipac spotlights are 55w bulbs if I remember correctly unless upgraded to 100w bulbs. These are often wired to come on with the main beam so worth a check.

Margo Ledbetter said:

but haven't found any light switches that look like this, particularly with the little red bulb in the end.

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I've seen such switches on industrial instrumentation / control panels ... If you really wanted to, you'd probably find something similar at:-

uk.rs-online.com/

Good luck - you'll find their range extensive, so you might be a while

Margo Ledbetter said:

I also find it odd that this flick switch comes with 'noise' when turned on

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Electric fan ? ( cooling ) ... ?

RE the Wipac lights - I'm with Turboman - take them off as they are probably blocking the intercooler - which is best avoided IMO.

If you want to keep them, then trace the wiring from the lights backwards - you should find the switch - but you might also find that they are not even connected !! Last vehicle I bought ( in my avatar! ), came so equipped

Thanks for all the input folks, quick update following further investigations today......
The switch I thought was for the WIPAC lights is actually for the fan behind the radiator. As far as I can see this is the only way to operate the fan as it doesn't appear to be connected to a thermostat. Is this normal / usual? Presumably operation of the fan is subject to conditions, so if I notice the temperature dial is moving towards the hot I turn it on??
I had a rummage to see where the wires were coming through into the cockpit fir the other light switches and found another metal flick switch! Now, turning this on and off still failed to illuminate the WIPAC's, but a small blue light on the dashboard started to flash.
????
I think I'm going to have to engage an auto-engineer to get to the bottom of the various lights but I'm curious about the fan situation.

Turboman said:

Forgot. Haynes manuals are OK for basics. But a reprint genuine 90/110 manual from Brooklands Books is better, and can be ordered online for delivery.

As far as I know, no manual covers aftermarket kit, although the makers might supply manuals on an item by item basis.

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Thanks Turboman, query: if this is a replacement TD5 engine now (and not the original V8), is this an engine that was fitted in Defenders? I was under the impression it had come out of a Discovery, in which case I presumably need a Disco manual?

What you may need to do is put the high beam on then flick the switches. They may be linked in.

Can you see any relays under the bonnet/engine bay that wire might go to the lights?

I've tried every combination I can think of; engine running and all lights on (including fogs), but the WIPAC's just don't seem to want to engage. I can see various relays and great rats nests of cables under the bonnet that appear to go every which way, so I think it's going to be a job for a professional to whom this will hopefully make sense! I found a great knot of cable stuffed in the dash shelf that appears to be speaker cable. God only knows what the plan for that was as it's not connected to anything and the radio works so the speakers obviously are connected!

Get a voltage meter and check voltage at the relays
You can learn a lot from someone’s bad wiring.
your Fault finding improves,saves you money
And any changes you make you know how to fix them next time

With a modified (bodged?!?!) vehicle it is always best to run through things like the electrics to see what does what, what works and if it has been done properly. As soon as you find a Scotchlock or twisted & taped joints run for the hills!

I had the Wipac lights (the large diameter ones) but sold them in 2006 as to be perfectly honest they weren't very good. From what I remember they came as standard with 100W bulbs which considering the poor light output was one of the reasons I got rid of them. They weren't even a like for like replacement for existing lights as with almost double the current-draw you had to upgrade the switchgear & wiring.




The TD5 was certainly fitted to Defenders (it followed the 300TDi) but to find out if your example came from a Defender or Disco you will have to trace the engine number. What gearbox is it linked to and where is the gearlever located (many aftermarket conversions have the gearlever in the "wrong" place depending on how the engine has been fitted and the gearbox used)?

Margo Ledbetter said:

Thanks for all the input folks, quick update following further investigations today......
The switch I thought was for the WIPAC lights is actually for the fan behind the radiator. As far as I can see this is the only way to operate the fan as it doesn't appear to be connected to a thermostat. Is this normal / usual? Presumably operation of the fan is subject to conditions, so if I notice the temperature dial is moving towards the hot I turn it on??
I had a rummage to see where the wires were coming through into the cockpit fir the other light switches and found another metal flick switch! Now, turning this on and off still failed to illuminate the WIPAC's, but a small blue light on the dashboard started to flash.
????
I think I'm going to have to engage an auto-engineer to get to the bottom of the various lights but I'm curious about the fan situation.

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Probably an aftermarket electric fan. As far as I can remember, Td5 had viscous fans as standard. The fan probably doesn't do much anyway, unless you are towing or driving up mountains. So you could just remove it, or you could remove it and fit a viscous fan and cowl.

Margo Ledbetter said:

Thanks Turboman, query: if this is a replacement TD5 engine now (and not the original V8), is this an engine that was fitted in Defenders? I was under the impression it had come out of a Discovery, in which case I presumably need a Disco manual?

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Td5 were fitted in Defenders, and in Discovery 2s. I doubt if there are any differences in servicing procedures with either engine.
So you can go various ways, get a Ninety One Ten Manual in printed form, and a Td5 manual for the engine. Or get the Ninety One Ten manual, and download the engine section of a Td5 Defender or Disco 2 manual off the net, and print it off. Or get the genuine reprint manual for Ninety One Ten, and a Haynes for Td5 Defender. Depends on your budget and preferences.

Margo Ledbetter said:

I've tried every combination I can think of; engine running and all lights on (including fogs), but the WIPAC's just don't seem to want to engage. I can see various relays and great rats nests of cables under the bonnet that appear to go every which way, so I think it's going to be a job for a professional to whom this will hopefully make sense! I found a great knot of cable stuffed in the dash shelf that appears to be speaker cable. God only knows what the plan for that was as it's not connected to anything and the radio works so the speakers obviously are connected!

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One possibility is that a previous owner fitted the Wipac lights, and they kept on blowing fuses, or caused an electrical fire.
So they just disconnected them, but left them there. As @Disco1BFG says, they may also impair cooling, and/or intercooler, so I would just take them off, job done.

Turboman said:

As @Disco1BFG says, they may also impair cooling, and/or intercooler, so I would just take them off, job done.

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+1 on both counts - I have a full width intercooler - so air flow to it is critical - plus of course, interuption/compromise of the air flow to the rad would have been further interrupted - so I took them orft

It was when doing so, that I found out they weren't even wired up

Replace the WIPAC lights with decent smaller LED spotlights when you’ve sorted the wiring issue. They’ll give a better light output for much less current draw and won’t obstruct the radiator or intercooler.

Thanks for all the input chaps. I've got one manual on order so am awaiting that in order to hopefully start checking fuses and relays if the images match what I'm looking at.
I found a few threads going back in time about the fans which make sense; looks like the visceral one might have been removed and this electric one at the front fitted instead.
An additional issue I've found is the windscreen washer; at the moment its not working at all. I can't hear a motor when it's used so possibly an electrical issue there too. I've been looking at Youtube vids of how to find the pump on it and the immediate discrepancy is that my reservoir tank appears to be perfectly visible at the back and not tucked under the wing behind the headlight. Erm?? Is this just an earlier TD5 fitting?
I'm sure I was told the gearbox (automatic) had come from a Discovery 2, so maybe the engine came from the same? I'll see if I can find the engine plate next time I prop the bonnet up; it's a later Puma bonnet and doesn't have a stay fitted which is becoming a pain in the proverbial.

Knappster said:

Replace the WIPAC lights with decent smaller LED spotlights when you’ve sorted the wiring issue. They’ll give a better light output for much less current draw and won’t obstruct the radiator or intercooler.

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Thanks Knappster, are there any particular brands or ranges of lights you'd recommend? So far in terms of similar size I've seen the Cibie Oscar LED ones and the Terrafirma Xenon.