newbie needs lots of help and rough valuation!

Hi guys and gals, I am looking to buy a landy off a friend. Ive always wanted one and now could be the time! Basically my mate bought it off his neighbour. It is a 1961 88" 2 1/4 petrol. It all looks standard, except free wheeling hubs. He has put it through a test and it failed on the following:
1.front brake pipe (solid) burst during test! the garage have fixed it.
2. corrosion to chassis where the front bumper mounts. I am welding that up tomorrow
3. brake lights dont work (could be bulbs though)
4. excessive play in front wheel bearings.

Most of the work seems straight forward to me however, how tricky are the wheel bearings?
The engine isnt converted to unleaded. Underneath seems solid but far from mint condition. The bodywork is quite straight but needs paint. Can somone give me a rough value? I know its hard without pics.

How much would you expect to pay for an unleaded converted head?

please somone help meeeeeeeee! :doh:

need a few pics but sounds like nothing that a couple of weekends cant solve, at a guess, between £900- £1700 but pics are needed

yea, i thought pics mite help, i will try and get some tomorrow although i rekon im going to make an offer on it. Are there any major things i should look for or is it just the usual things as with any car?

no mot, welding required (and there may well be more than the garage spotted), brakes that possibly/probably require a thorough going over and electrical gremlins, it's not guaranteed that it's wheel bearings on the front that need doing especially if your mot man doesn't know landrovers, it could be your swivel pins/railcos

forget the unleaded head for now, this motor is a project in my opinion without any photos to see

my last 88" cost me 100quid, the 109 before cost under 500 and my first 88" cost 350 (all projects) i also bought a breaker with overdrive for 300 (rotten chassis)

i've a reasonable idea of what i can be getting myself into now as i only buy projects but it's a little bit of a gamble for you,you could be looking at a replacement chassis in reality (i had to condemn a mates landy chassis recently as the rot was far more extensive than he thought and he'd bought it with 12months mot less than two years prior)

you don't say whether it's a station wagon or utility, probably originally utility at that age, you might do well to get yourself a few photos together of the areas that normally rot, dumbirons, rear crossmember, bulkhead A posts, vent areas, footwells, bulkhead outriggers (all out riggers) rear shackle mounts, check under bumpstops, check the bottom of the crossmembers inside the chassis

yes they do rot and can rot badly (from the inside out)

i've just spent 9 months stripping and repairing my 500quid 1965 109, chassis repairs (quite a bit, dumbirons, outriggers, rear crossmember), repaired (lots) a replacement bulkhead, swapped springs/shocks (engine change by choice) and i've now got to change my front axle as the diff pan has pinholed, plus i built my own wiring harness for it

i don't know why you want one (nor do i care, welcome to the addiction ) but be prepared for work

may i suggest you pop over to the Series 2 Club forum as i'd say that your 1961 is a Series 2 (or should be) and there's some very knowledgeable folks on there (rivet counters/nutters) who would be able to help you with any specific enquiries if you're interested as well as us lesser mortals that just like our landrovers for fun

anyway, as far as i'm concerned without pictures and without crawling over that landrover and stabbing it with a big screwdriver i'd put it's value at an absolute maximum of 500quid (no mot and requiring work) and if it required substantially more repairs than you've been told about (you cannot rely on an mot testers results with these) or had lost too much originality i'd halve that number as it could end up as a very expensive time consuming project

some people have stupidly inflated ideas of what thier classic tax exempt landrover is worth, i had one guy want 600quid for a completely rotten T.E. mid sixties 109 utility, there wasn't a solid section to the chassis and i was crumbling sections with my bare hand, a new galvy 109 chassis (period correct) is about 2k, the bulkhead also had degenerated to the composition of weetabix (try and find a good correct replacement that doesn't need work), there was very little that could be rescued from it

i've tried to give a fair valuation on the information you've given and i hope it helps

Pete

thanks for that pete. I will give it a good old once over tomorrow. The tester said he had a landy so I would have thought he knows his stuff. although I once had a beetle fail on wheel bearings when it was the front axle bushes and a mini advised on rear wheel bearings when it was the radius arm bearing! It is a utility i think, well its swb with windows in the back? He says it is ex MOD with stacks of history including MOD paperwork. the chassis rot from inside out i take it? i will take a big pokey stick with me!

you've owned two of the worst and best cars in the beetle and mini so you have a pretty good idea of how rust can eat motors

yes, landrover chassis rot from inside, they're designed to be taken offroad, the chassis has a fair few holes in it from the factory which get water and mud into the chassis, once mud is in there it holds the water in (the one i condemned had two inches of clay sat in the bottom of the chassis rails)

check the footwells and A posts and the bulkhead in general, they are a ballache to repair properly but you can get quite a bit off the shelf,i bought the best footwells for mine, 70quid for the pair and a foot for what ever that cost, luckily i didn't need A posts and the other repairs i could do from sheet metal i cut/shaped myself

best of luck

hahaha yes tell me about it! the mini was a total rot box! floor pans welded on top of each other ect! I wouldnt like to think of the total hours ive spent under that with the welder! I am going to give this one a real going over as I dont want to go through all that again! Generally are the motors bomb proof?
I will try and get some pics.

ben waine said:

need a few pics but sounds like nothing that a couple of weekends cant solve, at a guess, between £900- £1700 but pics are needed

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I think you are drastically over pricing the Series... Mine cost me under £800 with a full MOT on it... no MOT means it should be worth less.

the original petrol and diesel 2.25 litre motors will run for a very long time, the petrol is apparently stronger (or lasts longer) than the diesel, but like any engine wears and gets tired and unless your engine came out of an early 90 will be in excess of thirty years old, it possibly could do with a rebuild by now if it hasn't already had one, timing chains stretch, bores wear and so do big ends, we've had unleaded fuel since the 80's so it "possibly" requires a bit of headwork as well reseat the valves and any lead memory it has will be gone, the carb may need reworking

if it's a diesel it may need the same kind of remedial work (a recon of the injector pump will cost about 100quid)

the above is not gained from personal experience of these engines as the only ones i have are sat in my garage, not in my landrovers except in Chalkie which is too much of an oddball factory motor to change the engine from standard (1970-71 New Zealand CKD ex military 88" on a combat chassis awaiting registration and repairs)

i run tdi's in my ones which can and does bring along transmission problems, swapped the gearbox in my 88" twice this year as they've collapsed, remember my gearboxes are 30+ years old and may have been treated differently to yours

the good thing about these old landrovers is there's so many different ways they've possibly been modified over the years and there's so many of them still about that spares are still easy to find in general, rivet counting original year stuff for early ones like yours can get harder to find (the series 2 came out in 1958)

apart from registering on the Series 2 forum (i can't recommend it highly enough) for further information, i think that's about as far as my knowledge goes, on the S2C forum the knowledge is that good for the early ones that from just the chassis number there'll be a few lads that will be able to give you a fairly accurate guess of what your landrover originally was fitted out with and with photos will be able to tell you if yours has been extensively repaired/had parts changed etc

have a picture of my 88" bitsa (Zebedee) changed a bit since that picture was taken


a picture of Big Ears and Zebedee together


Big Ears rebuild album My 1965 109 pictures by NiteMare_08 - Photobucket

and finally a picture of Chalkie

Jeez you must be a legend or mad to own that many landys! Ive beeu and done a bit of work on it today. My thoughts where if I do the work then its getting done right and also I can knock my bill off the sale price if i buy it! The chassis seem solid in all the places stated, the paint on it is flakey and needs a good wire brush and underseal. Under closer inspection (the landy anoraks will fall from there rocking chairs) it has been fitted with series 3 wings, bulkhead and dash? The bulkhead is in very good condition. It has plenty of recipts with it including one for a recon gearbox and an engine rebuild. The wheel bearings adjusted up fine, the welding on the front of the chassis was a piece of cake, the brake light switch was knackered, and the number plate light needed the contacts cleaning. I noticed the top bearing in the steering column is on its way out and the steering box does have play in it, but not excessive, this is adjustable isnt it? Hopefully it will got for mot tomorrow and my mate is going to tax it. I am really interested in it now! Would £1k-£1200 sound about right for it?

to be honest "if" it has had the bulkhead changed for a S3 one (in my opinion more likely to be an id swapper without closer investigation) it's "only" a bitsa which devalues it, i'd say no more than a grand absolute maximum and closer to 750-800 quid (this is remembering that we've still not seen any pictures and any rivet counter would probably class it as spare parts only)

really it's only saving grace is the fact it's described as "historic" so the duty is nil and it's eligible for classic insurance, just a shame that it's history file is possibly/probably just paper that doesn't match the motor

there are subtle differences even on the chassis that will distinguish it's age, if it's a fully synchro box it'll be a very late 2a unit or S3, the tub rivets changed on the S3 from the 2-2a and even the rear light positions on the late S3 got moved to top and bottom of the tub, late S3 axles are slightly different to early ones as well

i dunno if that's good news or bad but on ebay it would get scrutinised and probably flagged as an "iffy" motor, i've seen that happen to a lot (ignoring the 90/defenders that are blatantly on dodgy plates/logbooks)

i bought my bitsa as a 2a knowing nothing at all about landrovers about three years ago, i was rapidly educated on the Series 2 forum as to what i'd actually bought and used it as a lesson/learning tool, i still run it as my hooligan tool and it's now been pressed back into daily driver duty as i'm changing the engine in Big Ears again (got a nasty rattle )

a mate has not long ago bought a genuine S2 but again it's a bitsa, all S2 parts except the gearbox i think but made up from many years of parts, it's just a bitsa though and will never be anything special to the collectors

your choice to press ahead with the purchase or not

thanks for that info, it did go through my mind as I was working on it. I still fancy it as im just wanting a bit of a toy to use on lanes ect and perhaps a bit of pay and play. Is so the S2 lights are side by side? These ones are on top of each other. What are the differances in chassis? I will check tomorrow and use it as a bit of a lever on the price!

series2 and 3 tail lights are both one above the other but the later s3 has the indicator at the top of the tub and the tail light at the bottom if i remember correctly (about a foot distance between them)

early 2 chassis "doesn't" have a diagonal piece of angle iron between the chassis rail and the bulkhead outrigger (makes up a triangle), late 2A's do have it as does the S3

the bell housing crossmember on a 2/2a has extra plates going from it onto the inner side of the chassis rail, the S3 doesn't due to the revised clutch slave cylinder placement and bell housing change, clutch slave cylinder on the S3 is on the passenger side fixed horizontally into the bellhousing, on the S2/2a it is mounted vertically on a frame on the drivers side of the bellhousing and attached to the release mechanism via a lever and cross shaft into the rear of the bellhousing

an early one such as this is supposed to be should also have it's rear check straps bolted "flat" to the chassis (2 per side thick plates drilled, tapped and welded flat to the chassis) with seperate little "ears" for the bump stop to be bolted to, S3 (possibly late 2A) has a large W shaped plate (bent 2mm thick steel strip) welded to the side of the chassis to bolt the check straps to and carry the bumpstop

S3 W for checkstrap/bumpstop (my bitsa chassis when it broke in half)


these are about the only "details" i can remember off the top of my head that may help you identify differences, it's easier for me to spot differences and recall what i'm supposed to be looking for when i'm crawling under motors myself

Ive had a look under it today and it has the flat style bump stop mounts and the angle iron to the outrigger at the bulkhead?I solved the reg lamp fault, the earthing bolt on the off side corner had turned to dust! So off we set for the re-test. On the way there the brakes started to pump up and by the time we had got to the test station all 4 where almost locked on. We managed to limp it home as the guy at the test station was a complete c*^k to be honest and wouldnt even lend us a spanner to undo the brake pipe at the master cylinder to try and free the brakes off to get home. I think the master cylinder is shot, can anyone think of anything else it could be? They arent servo assisted and I never knew they are all on one circuit!

if it's single line then a new master cylinder should be dirt cheap

or you could get a seal kit for pennies almost, probably only worth doing if it's a cast iron master cylinder with a remote reservoir

they're not too difficult to change in situ, to get at the bottom bolt (or nut) poke a spanner up into the pedal box from in the footwell and undo the nut (or bolt) from under the bonnet

disconnect the actuating rod from the pedal along with the pipe(s) from the m/cylinder

once replaced don't forget to set the pedal height correctly

Ive had another installment of the landy today. I wanted to be certain that is was the master cylinder at fault. I slackened the brake pipe off at the master cylinder and depressed the pedal, the jet of brake fluid that spurted out tells me that its fine. I jacked each wheel individually and they all turn freely even though the pedal was pretty much solid. When the pedal is depressed the brakes work fine and dont bind after. So I whipped the cap off the cover for the adjusting nuts on the pedal and it was adjusted right up to the end of the thread. I moved it about 1/2" down the thread and it seems much better. Ive rolled the car backwards and forwards on the drive, stamped on the brakes and if you pump the pedal it goes solid but frees off correctly as it should. The only thing is I cant road test it as it has no tax or test and I dont want to end with the same situation as last time where I drive to the test station with the brakes locked on! What is the proper procedure for setting the brake pedal?

sooooo, im now the proud owner of said landrover! The master cylinder just needed re adjusting! Its now on the road again with 12months test on it! However one front swivel needs readjusting and so does a rear wheel bearing as they where advised on the test. I will try and get some pics up later. I managed to bag it for £1k! And its done less than 70k!

hi all having had my restored serries 3 swb 88 tdi engine T boned its been written off and try to sort out replacement value any ideas please

crowsanwra said:

hi all having had my restored serries 3 swb 88 tdi engine T boned its been written off and try to sort out replacement value any ideas please

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ebay or back of land rover mag- without pictures it could be worth xyz.

Also be aware NO SELLING until 50 MEANINGFUL POSTS