New Discovery 3 - Turbo Failure

Evening Guys,
Apologies not been on the forum for a week or so.

Car is running okay, starts first time on the button, fires into life and idles nice and smooth, I really like this car. So a few updates:

EGR Blank, I fitted the blanking plates myself, the car was practically un-driveable as you needed no other cars on the road before you pulled out of a junction. After messing about trying to see if the egr valves were actuating I found one was completely dead by putting 12v on it and getting nothing back, the other one you could hear it actuating when 12v was applied. I bought the blanking kit based on the cost to replace 2 egr valves. Totally transformed the way the car drives in that you can pull out and it will shift to get you up to road speed, however as one of the valves was dead the check engine light was permanently on. So I got the egr system deleted, no check engine light now, no egr codes stored. I did not remove any valves, I did remove the pipes but still have them, so could re-fit for MOT if required.

Still got an engine system fault flagging up which is more annoying than the CEL as it toggles on the drivers info display every few seconds. K Motors checked and sorted the actuator arm, so I can rule that out for now. Strange thing with the code is that when you clear the error memory, as soon as you start the engine the code comes back, this is before driving the car and putting any load through the turbo so if this is a genuine turbo issue how does the car know at idle when no boost is required. Also, the turbo is a mechanical lump, what sensor could be flagging this code, the signal amplitude.maximum part of the message must come from some electrical component somewhere in the system.



I'll check the MAP sensor tomorrow, guess there is a write up on disco3 forum. Going to Belgium in it tomorrow, setting off just before midnight so got some time tomorrow to have a look, I'll check the fuel filter as well, it was on my mind to put a new one on, they are really quite cheap for a decent one.

Lynall, what you describe about the behaviour whilst on cruise is exactly what I experienced, held 70 easily but as soon as I hit a mild incline it seemed to drop a couple of mph.

I also agree with the comments re.getting it mapped. I've always resisted getting my cars mapped or chipped as it was called in the 90's Cosworth years, just figured on this car it may help with performance and mpg. I think I'll re-consider when I've got to the bottom of the potential turbo issue.

For info, I asked K-Motors to quote for brake fluid, ATF fluid, front & rear diff fluid and gearbox oil/filter change. £579 for the full fluid service. Think I've said before I'll do the engine oil/filter every 6k, fairly straightforward job and oil/filter reasonably priced.

I'll update on any findings and after I've done 1500 miles in it over the next week.

Hiya

thks for the update

just quickly , when u done the egr blanks did u also remove the throttle body butterfly valve

Egr software delete will indeed stop them from activating and stop the EML light , normally the connectors as far as I’m aware stay connected to the EGRS

indeed , remove and clean the MAP sensor , plse may I add, don’t put anything down the map sensor otherwise ur destroy it, personally I bought some MAP sensor cleaner , used the cans extension tube and gave it a good clean, also ensuring the outside was also clean

if it blocked ur notice the difference , particularly going up hills or at motorway speeds

also ensure the hose clamps that are at the turbo are tight and can’t see any signs of oil spray

fuel filter ensure it’s a decent one, ie like Meyle or genuine , cheap ones will cause nightmares with the system

Then see if u still have the code plse

hope that helps

Mike the turbo is a vgt job, with the vanes driven by an electrical actuator, so that is most likely where the code is coming from.

Defo keep the egr pipes, I refitted mine and just used the blanks as shims so looks totally std, mainly of the mot, just need 4 x m6 bolts 5mm longer to account for the thickenss of the shims.

As Gary says, use a cheap fuel filter at your peril, I tend to use delphi, not cheap but no issues in over 5 years.

Evening Gents.

So road trip to Belgium complete, stats:

Distance: 1257miles
Fuel Cons: 29.9mpg
Av. Speed: 47mph
New faults / issues: 0

What a great versatile machine to go on a long(ish) road trip in. Kids all had loads of space, the entire family offered their full support by sleeping a majority of the way. We stayed with a number of couples, all the dads commented on how good the car looks and what a bonus it is to have the amount of space we had for luggage. Apart from the ongoing power issues the car was flawless, did not miss a beat.

I did manage to get some more info on the power loss situation. Going uphill, and we hit many a 2-3km steady incline, the car would struggle. I found I was occasionally sat at 3000rpm struggling to maintain 60mph. If I gradually pressed the accelerator nothing would happen, it would power on if I got it to kick down by jabbing the pedal but then we were sat at north of 3500rpm and it felt like I was thrashing it a bit, at 35degrees external temp I did not feel happy about doing this so let it sit at 3K to get up the inclines, a bit annoying as you were getting overtaken by merc sprinters. I also found it better to use manual shift to get it to change down before losing too much speed as we headed into another incline.

On a flat surface it felt fine, got up to 70mph reasonably well and would canter on to >80mph.

Also noted a low warble type tone when the car came off the incline and moved into the next gear up, to stop this I had to kick down for a bit get the speed up and let it change back itself. In the morning on first use the issue was not as severe, I felt like it got worse as the engine got to running temp and had thermally soaked a bit. Whilst driving through France etc, being useless at languages I had the radio off, I noted a whine, not sure if it is bearing or diff but definitely speed associated and again seemed to get worse the longer we were on the road. Convinced it was from the rear but have been wrong about this before. I checked the wheel temperatures at the end of every journey but to my touch they were all at a consistent temperature.

Going to have another look over all the hoses pipes I can see tomorrow, just to see after this usage if there are any signs of a split etc. There is definitely something wrong, the car knows this as it's telling me on the display, I just need to start a process of elimination. I checked the MAP sensor and cleaned it best I could with electrical spray. Not convinced I cleaned it all out and did not want to stick anything into the hole, thought I'll buy a new one to rule this out until I checked the price, really? for a tiny sensor.

When I fitted the egr blanking plugs I did not remove anything else other than the pipes.

If I get nowhere I think I'll put it back into K Motors and ask them to diagnose the engine system fault error message.

I'll update this thread shortly, hopefully if I get to a solution this dialogue can help others one day.

Cheers

I dont know what you are paying to get codes read? but the icarsoft i9230 is about 100 quid, actually a pretty decent tool for the money.
With the diag tool you could also monitor live data, ie boost pressures, fuel pressures etc, bit of a process of elimination to help you diagnose the car.

The D3/4 like a front wheel bearing every now and then, cheap ones are rubbish, I had one that lasted 15k! Timken is the one to get.
Mine has had a very slight whine for the entire 5.5 yrs I have had it, so I would not get to concerned about that just yet.

MikeClem said:

I did manage to get some more info on the power loss situation. Going uphill, and we hit many a 2-3km steady incline, the car would struggle. I found I was occasionally sat at 3000rpm struggling to maintain 60mph

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Just a thought on the sluggish hill performance.

This could be down to the wheel size fitted. Going to larger wheel/ tyre combinations will affect the gearing, which will make is feel more sluggish than a smaller wheel/tyres combo.

Thanks fellas.

My mate has a snap on solus pro unit. Not sure about live data so I'll ask him about that, good idea.

I figured the whine could just be an undefined feature of the mechanics of this car, never noticed it before as I have always had the radio on.

Re. the wheels, appreciate the suggestion, although the external diameter of the tyre on the 22's is the same as the 19's I've got in the shed. I measured them before I put them on.

Had a good look around the engine bay today, nothing obvious, I'll put it in to K Motors and ask them to diagnose the issue and update on any findings.

Nodge, just noted your near Newquay. We come to Newquay every year and I was really looking forward to the trip in the new discovery this year but we cancelled based on covid this year. We'll return next year. 350 miles from Liverpool so it's a decent road trip.

So a new symptom raised its head this morning. The car was given a couple of days rest after the road trip as a reward. Started it up, fired up immediately no problem. I noticed quite a deposit of carbon on the path, particularly the passenger side where it left a mound. I gave it some revs and it did bellow black smoke. Seemed to lighten up after a while, but I've never seen it do this before. Even when giving it some stick uphill I was checking the rear view but never noticed any smoke, white or black.

It's booked into K Motors 21st August for them to have a good look at it.

Dust pan and brush had to be binned!

Latest update on loss of power under load.

Diagnosed by K Motors as a suspect faulty turbo actuator. A bit of a disaster as the cost to replace the turbo is £1950. The guy said its a shame as the turbo itself will be fine, the inside of the pipes are all spotless, no smoke at any time, car drives well and is a well looked after vehicle. Guess I've just been unlucky and got caught with a known issue on these engines.

They've said it's a body off job. It's booked in this Thursday. I've asked them to replace the hoses and the rear belt whilst they have access.

I'll ask them to take a couple of pictures, I'll post them up on here and let you know how it all goes.

MikeClem said:

They've said it's a body off job. It's booked in this Thursday.

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It's possible to change the turbo without removing the body.

Before going down the replacement turbo route, I'd be lubricating the boost control solenoid first, as they're known to go a bit sticky.

I'd want to know for definite that the turbo boost control solenoid is the issue, before spending 50% of the vehicle's value on a replacement.

Yeah we tried the lubricating and freeing up of the actuator rod but it did not work. The guy described the fault as under boosting, whereas the actuator is not closing correctly at full load and allowing boost pressure to escape. This fits in with the symptoms whilst driving. He did mention its possible to do the job without the body off but this depends on a couple of turbo to manifold bolts releasing without breaking. If they break its body off to carry on, so to get that far and find out the body had to come off anyway might as well go for body off from the outset. I'll ask them to do further investigation to confirm the actuator issue but he pretty sure based on symptoms and previous experience that the actuator is faulty.

The car has only done 69k and is otherwise mechanically sound. Drives really well, comfortable and capable. Bodywork and interior are in great condition. I'm trying to convince myself that it's worth the effort and money. Can't see any other options to be honest. And on the whole if this is my main worry in life, things are okay.

If you like it fix it.