New Discovery 3 - Turbo Failure

MikeClem · Jul 12, 2020

Cheers All.

Some updates, answers and further questions.

Wheel alignment completed on Friday, guy had a poke about all the bushes, said everything looks fine, to be honest it drives like a tank, feels solid, no knocks or bangs.

When I boot it, it does not go into limp mode, just seems to take it's time to get going but when it picks up it does shift, makes me hesitant when thinking about overtaking on a dual carriageway etc.

Ref the oil pump cover, how would I know it is a new revised one? I had a look around whilst the engine was idling, I did notice some wobble/bounce on the belt tensioner, tried to capture in a video, I'll upload to u-tube and post a link, I'm thinking to stop what I was planning ref EGR delete and re-map until I know this has been sorted or requires sorting.

I'm based in Formby, Liverpool. Looking about for a local(ish) garage / mechanic who would be able to help with the oil pump cover replacement if required, any suggestions are appreciated.

The car came with no documentation but I traced the service history through the dealerships, it has comprehensive history being serviced every year up to the last few. Cam belts were done at 50k, now on 68k. I've done and oil and filter this weekend, my reward for this is a new washer fluid low level warning that now won't clear even thought the washer fluid is full.

MikeClem · Jul 12, 2020

Link to tensioner wobble. It's difficult to see but there is a noticeable wobble in the belt running direction.

MikeClem · Jul 12, 2020

https://www.kmotors.co.uk/location-map/

Found these guys, website is very detailed including pricing, looks like a good set up, I'll give them a call tomorrow to discuss.

MikeClem · Jul 12, 2020

You'll have to bear with me guys, learning this car and engine as I go along.

Been reading last hour or so. I think the tensioner that is showing wobble is the aux belt tensioner. Deeper inspection required to check the oil pump cover version. Vin number is 9A, trying to establish if this is an affected Vin. First registration 09/2008.

gstuart · Jul 12, 2020

MikeClem said:
You'll have to bear with me guys, learning this car and engine as I go along.

Been reading last hour or so. I think the tensioner that is showing wobble is the aux belt tensioner. Deeper inspection required to check the oil pump cover version. Vin number is 9A, trying to establish if this is an affected Vin. First registration 09/2008.

hi @MikeClem

good to see u got the alignment done, may i ask plse what size tyres are they , thks

ref oil pump, alas have to take the timing belt covers off and the weak oil pump covers were fitted after 2007

now I don’t want to worry u but , would just like to pass some information on, sometimes when the timing belts are done they don’t change the oil pump cover, then what happens the corner of the oil pump cover where that tensioner is bolted on breaks away causing a lot of damage

it may just be a bad tensioner but wish to at least ensure u get it checked out ASAP it’s to be on the safe side ,

ref lag when over taking ,because u had the P132 code that links in with the turbo, however it may be an old code

if it comes back up check ur intercooler hoses and any black smoke from the exhaust , if u get limp mode and you’ve checked the hose on the left hand side of the engine as u look at it, ur then need to check the jubilee clip isn’t broke on the turbo , u can access it via the passenger side wheel arch , u just remove a small cover and then look for any signs of oil, if there are signs it means one of those hoses are leaking

or the turbo actuator arm is sticking , will find a U tube video for u just in case u need it

well hope that at at least gives u a heads up and again not trying to scare u but would hate to not say anything

ref mechanics , have a look on the D3 forum as there are some one there that many of us use

https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/

Hope that helps and many of us here to always help if u get stuck

old oil pump cover

New oil pump cover, has the reinforced corner

Tensioner broken off

Can see better in this last picture where the tensioner has broken off the oil pump cover

gstuart · Jul 12, 2020

Circled it in ref where the turbo is hidden and the small metal silver heat shield u have to remove to gain access to the hoses and turbo actuator arm

If u get black smoke the first hose to check is that LH side one, normally get a split on the underside of the hose bend

unless of course u don’t do any of the spannering urself, plus as u also mentioned , don’t get it remapped just yet

hope that helps

gstuart · Jul 12, 2020

gstuart · Jul 12, 2020

Just seen that ref , bottle , is that the coolant or windscreen washer bottle warning plse

Reason I ask , it’s a known fault on the washer one, float becomes porous or sticks normally the entire bottle is replaced

plus do u have ur own diagnostics

hopefully that’s given u some useful info

lynall · Jul 12, 2020

MikeClem said:
You'll have to bear with me guys, learning this car and engine as I go along.

Been reading last hour or so. I think the tensioner that is showing wobble is the aux belt tensioner. Deeper inspection required to check the oil pump cover version. Vin number is 9A, trying to establish if this is an affected Vin. First registration 09/2008.

They bounce as normal, so long as the belt is running in the middle of the pulley it is fine, if it is running off to one side the bush is on its way out.

As I understand it you cannot rely on the vin 100 percent.
The potential cost of casing failure is enough to write most D3 off due to their decreasing value, so a new pump is well worth the cost/effort.

MikeClem · Jul 12, 2020

Thanks for the replies fellas, really appreciate the info and heads up.

Jobs for tomorrow:

Remove cam belt cover and try to see oil pump cover to establish what level / type.
Have a go at removing the heat shield to check turbo hose.
Check true running of aux belt on pulley.
Phone K Motors to discuss cost of oil pump cover job.

I'm reasonably competent with spanners but there are certain jobs I believe are better left to the pro's. Anything to do with cam belts, oil pumps ets are jobs I'd put in that category.

No black smoke on kick down, no experience of limp mode.

100% agree with the advice, if I can spend a few hundred quid now to prevent the potential total loss of the vehicle it's a no brainer.

Looking around it you can see evidence that it has been treated well with regards to maintenance, this backs ups the comprehensive service history and relatively low mileage.

It's the washer fluid error message, I'll have a look at a replacement bottle, could have done this job when fitting a new front parking sensor!!

Ref wheel alignment:
Tyres are 275 35 21

Looking on K motors website they say they have many 2.7tdv6 motors with 200k on them, clearly the engine is capable but I guess it's based on regular and preventative maintenance, maybe a bit of luck thrown in there as well. As stated I'm taking the family to Europe in it in August, I'm looking forward to the driving adventure, the wife and kids just want to get there safe and sound. If required I'll be looking to get the oil cover replaced before anything else.

Will update any progress next few days.

Again, thanks for taking the time to help out, really appreciated.

gstuart · Jul 13, 2020

MikeClem said:
Thanks for the replies fellas, really appreciate the info and heads up.

Jobs for tomorrow:

Remove cam belt cover and try to see oil pump cover to establish what level / type.
Have a go at removing the heat shield to check turbo hose.
Check true running of aux belt on pulley.
Phone K Motors to discuss cost of oil pump cover job.

I'm reasonably competent with spanners but there are certain jobs I believe are better left to the pro's. Anything to do with cam belts, oil pumps ets are jobs I'd put in that category.

No black smoke on kick down, no experience of limp mode.

100% agree with the advice, if I can spend a few hundred quid now to prevent the potential total loss of the vehicle it's a no brainer.

Looking around it you can see evidence that it has been treated well with regards to maintenance, this backs ups the comprehensive service history and relatively low mileage.

It's the washer fluid error message, I'll have a look at a replacement bottle, could have done this job when fitting a new front parking sensor!!

Ref wheel alignment:
Tyres are 275 35 21

Looking on K motors website they say they have many 2.7tdv6 motors with 200k on them, clearly the engine is capable but I guess it's based on regular and preventative maintenance, maybe a bit of luck thrown in there as well. As stated I'm taking the family to Europe in it in August, I'm looking forward to the driving adventure, the wife and kids just want to get there safe and sound. If required I'll be looking to get the oil cover replaced before anything else.

Will update any progress next few days.

Again, thanks for taking the time to help out, really appreciated.

hiya

ur so welcome and always a team effort

just wished to at least let u know of issues that can arise so then fingers crossed will save u problems in the long run

Nope, I didn’t see the size of the tyres, lol, apologises it’s one of my pet hates seeing low profiles on a 4x4 , alas the ride is reduced, plus rims become easily damaged with the reduced tyre sidewall ie, kerbs, greenlaning etc , but assume they came with the disco , ur be amazed having something like 17/18 with a 60/70 sidewall size with how much the ride quality improves , isnt a criticism on u in any way

plus we will always help those who appreciate it like ur goodself and always nice to where thank u are received as ur be surprised of some that can’t be bothered to use any form of manners and expect the answer immediately

It’s most appreciated and plse let us know how things go and ur receive plenty of help if u get stuck

as a side note ref diagnostics, the gap iid is the best one out there, alas £400 but pays for itself very quickly , it will allow u to do virtually everything what a Main dealers diagnostic can, in calibration of suspension, live data on each module , the list goes on, of course there are cheaper ones but many of us own the iid

lol, ref washer bottle, always the way , pretty sure the bumper needs to come off to replace it

hope that helps and look forward to the update

gstuart · Jul 13, 2020

lynall said:
They bounce as normal, so long as the belt is running in the middle of the pulley it is fine, if it is running off to one side the bush is on its way out.

As I understand it you cannot rely on the vin 100 percent.
The potential cost of casing failure is enough to write most D3 off due to their decreasing value, so a new pump is well worth the cost/effort.

fingers crossed is just a bad tensioner , but just worried me seeing the belts had been changed if the oil pump cover had been ignored like we’ve seen many times before

where after there torqued down it leaves a fine line crack in it and then tensioner snaps off

wish garages would automatically replace them, there favourite one is not replacing the rear belt because they think the body has to come off, but as we know can be done in less than an hour

my god I’ve learnt so much in the 4 x years of owning a D3 of all the crap garages come out with

ps, hope ur keeping well buddy

gstuart · Jul 13, 2020

Also thinking ref the oil pump cover I wonder if a endoscope may help, Thought then maybe just one side could be undone of the timing belt cover to allow an endoscope to be used , alas though with so many online it’s hard to try and find a half decent one that doesn’t cost the earth

I’ve got to get a new one, my one just links to the iPad and is crap

don’t know if something like this would be any good

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1080P-Sn...Inspection-Borescope-Waterproof-/133377905099

thks

MikeClem · Jul 13, 2020

So an update.

As per the suggestion my plan was to try to open up the cam cover and get an endoscope in there. I've got a usb one, it's half decent, would have done the job if I could have got the cover to open up a bit. I read somewhere that there are 16 cover bolts, I got as far as 12 bolts all above or level with the fan pulley. Removed the upper fan shroud, air filter housing and a couple of other hoses were moved out of the way. However the cover just did not seem to want to split enough to get the scope in, it was really tight, wasn't sure if any of the pulleys or tensioner arms needed removing. Not wanting to force anything just in case I missed a bolt (found the 2 sunk hidden ones). Rain, scraped knuckles, frustration and a bruised ego halted proceedings, I put it all back together and phoned K Motors. Car is booked in a week Wednesday for EGR delete and investigation into oil pump cover level, a bit frustrating as I want to get it checked asap but if they are fully booked for the next 7 working days that can only be a good sign.

I've not got any means of LR diagnostics yet, got INPA, VagCom etc so reasonably familiar with software. I'll have a look at the suggested device when I've a resolution for the oil pump cover.

Completely understand about low profile rims on a truck, I'll have to confess though, I bought them, as I just love the look, always liked the overfinch tigers from when I first saw them years ago, so the plan was always to get a set. I have the original LR alloys in the shed, might sell them to help fund oil pump cover work costs. You are spot on however, the missus has damaged 2 of them already and they were refurbished so like new.

I will have a go at seeing if I can get access to the turbo actuator this week and update. Feels like a bit of a failure today but I'm probably being over cautious not want to cause any issues myself.

As always, good to be able to discuss any progress, appreciate the input.

gstuart · Jul 13, 2020

MikeClem said:
So an update.

As per the suggestion my plan was to try to open up the cam cover and get an endoscope in there. I've got a usb one, it's half decent, would have done the job if I could have got the cover to open up a bit. I read somewhere that there are 16 cover bolts, I got as far as 12 bolts all above or level with the fan pulley. Removed the upper fan shroud, air filter housing and a couple of other hoses were moved out of the way. However the cover just did not seem to want to split enough to get the scope in, it was really tight, wasn't sure if any of the pulleys or tensioner arms needed removing. Not wanting to force anything just in case I missed a bolt (found the 2 sunk hidden ones). Rain, scraped knuckles, frustration and a bruised ego halted proceedings, I put it all back together and phoned K Motors. Car is booked in a week Wednesday for EGR delete and investigation into oil pump cover level, a bit frustrating as I want to get it checked asap but if they are fully booked for the next 7 working days that can only be a good sign.

I've not got any means of LR diagnostics yet, got INPA, VagCom etc so reasonably familiar with software. I'll have a look at the suggested device when I've a resolution for the oil pump cover.

Completely understand about low profile rims on a truck, I'll have to confess though, I bought them, as I just love the look, always liked the overfinch tigers from when I first saw them years ago, so the plan was always to get a set. I have the original LR alloys in the shed, might sell them to help fund oil pump cover work costs. You are spot on however, the missus has damaged 2 of them already and they were refurbished so like new.

I will have a go at seeing if I can get access to the turbo actuator this week and update. Feels like a bit of a failure today but I'm probably being over cautious not want to cause any issues myself.

As always, good to be able to discuss any progress, appreciate the input.

ur so welcome and always happy as all of us are to help fellow landy owners

Go and and sit on the naughty step for fitting the tyres, slowly walks away whistling , lol

that’s a shame u could get to see what oil cover u have , at least it’s booked in so it can be sorted out, also has the rear belt ever been changed , it’s only for the fuel pump but always best to at least check in the records if it’s ever been changed

also ur be able to check the turbo hoses when looking at the actuator arm, graphite grease is very good, I virtually emptied a can

Plus get someone to sit in the landy , whilst ur at the turbo , turn the ign on and u should hear the arm move ,

also if u ever get it remapped make sure that actuator self test program isn’t over written , as it motors the arm when u turn the ign on and also when turned off, helps prevent it from sticking

there are other diagnostics but indeed the iid is the best, island 4x4 is the cheapest to buy it from

it’s the Bluetooth version u want , works via ur iPad or iPhone , is vin locked to ur disco

https://www.island-4x4.co.uk/integr...6405-da6406-da6408-da6409-da6410-p-27303.html

think it works out around £420 , plus the after service from gap iid which are based in Canada is second to none , very helpful if u have issues

Plse keep us updated and as always hope that helps

MikeClem · Jul 25, 2020

Update on this weeks findings.

Car went into K Motors to have the oil pump level checked. Good news is that it has the up-rated stronger version fitted, we discussed the possibility of it being upgraded under a technical bulletin or that it might have been an original part and I was just lucky that my engine was built at the point the new cover was being introduced. VIN is an 9A first registered Oct 2009. Obviously pleased that it turned out this way, I was ready to get it changed if it required it, avoided a £900 bill for new pump belts etc. Total cost to check the pump level and sort the actuator £99 + £6 for a full English at the Morrisons round the corner.

Whilst it was in they checked the turbo system and lubricated the turbo actuator, the guy said it wasn't stuck but was struggling to get to the min / max limits. He said he could monitor it after they lubricated it and could see it moving full travel. However I still feel something is not quite right, on the motorway on the way home when you hit an incline you can physically feel the car slightly hesitating, put your foot down and it seems to do nothing for a time and then eventually pick up. It will get to >70mph, just still feels like it's lacking some power, maybe a dyno test is required.

Got the egr delete done, this was completed by a guy independent to K Motors as they did not have the ability to modify the dtc system in the ecu. He carried out the work at K Motors site. CEL is now out, result, we also discussed the P132B-22 code that is triggering the engine system fault message on the display. He masked this code to stop the error message display. However the fault message has re-appeared, going to get it scanned today, a mate has the snap-on scanner so will update on what the fault message is this time. The guy stated it won't be the P132B-22, must be another code triggering this message. Cost for the this work £280. Also discussed getting it mapped, the guy was clearly an expert on this subject, advised me that the maps he installs are all unique to the engine he is working with, he does not provide generic off the shelf solutions and spends some time reading how the car is currently set up before modifying any of the maps. I told him I may get it done later this year, need to get some clarity on the power issue, might just be me and my expectations as I never owned a big LR before so don't have any point of reference to compare mine against.

Asked K Motors to quote for a full fluid change, front / rear diffs, gearbox, power steering & brake fluids. I've just done an engine oil & filter, I'll do these myself every 6k. I'll let you guys know what cost they come back with for the fluid service. Impressed with their set up, as soon as I pulled into the unit there were dozens of same generation RR's & LR's scattered around, very knowledgeable and happy to discuss anything about your vehicle. He confirmed the aux belt pulley does bounce a bit, so as advised on here, as long as the belt is central and the bounce is not excessive all is normal.

I'll update on the error message code after today.

lynall · Jul 25, 2020

MikeClem said:
Update on this weeks findings.

Car went into K Motors to have the oil pump level checked. Good news is that it has the up-rated stronger version fitted, we discussed the possibility of it being upgraded under a technical bulletin or that it might have been an original part and I was just lucky that my engine was built at the point the new cover was being introduced. VIN is an 9A first registered Oct 2009. Obviously pleased that it turned out this way, I was ready to get it changed if it required it, avoided a £900 bill for new pump belts etc. Total cost to check the pump level and sort the actuator £99 + £6 for a full English at the Morrisons round the corner.

Whilst it was in they checked the turbo system and lubricated the turbo actuator, the guy said it wasn't stuck but was struggling to get to the min / max limits. He said he could monitor it after they lubricated it and could see it moving full travel. However I still feel something is not quite right, on the motorway on the way home when you hit an incline you can physically feel the car slightly hesitating, put your foot down and it seems to do nothing for a time and then eventually pick up. It will get to >70mph, just still feels like it's lacking some power, maybe a dyno test is required.

Got the egr delete done, this was completed by a guy independent to K Motors as they did not have the ability to modify the dtc system in the ecu. He carried out the work at K Motors site. CEL is now out, result, we also discussed the P132B-22 code that is triggering the engine system fault message on the display. He masked this code to stop the error message display. However the fault message has re-appeared, going to get it scanned today, a mate has the snap-on scanner so will update on what the fault message is this time. The guy stated it won't be the P132B-22, must be another code triggering this message. Cost for the this work £280. Also discussed getting it mapped, the guy was clearly an expert on this subject, advised me that the maps he installs are all unique to the engine he is working with, he does not provide generic off the shelf solutions and spends some time reading how the car is currently set up before modifying any of the maps. I told him I may get it done later this year, need to get some clarity on the power issue, might just be me and my expectations as I never owned a big LR before so don't have any point of reference to compare mine against.

Asked K Motors to quote for a full fluid change, front / rear diffs, gearbox, power steering & brake fluids. I've just done an engine oil & filter, I'll do these myself every 6k. I'll let you guys know what cost they come back with for the fluid service. Impressed with their set up, as soon as I pulled into the unit there were dozens of same generation RR's & LR's scattered around, very knowledgeable and happy to discuss anything about your vehicle. He confirmed the aux belt pulley does bounce a bit, so as advised on here, as long as the belt is central and the bounce is not excessive all is normal.

I'll update on the error message code after today.

EGR delete, did he just map it out or map and add physical blanks?
Should hold 70 plus easily, no rocket ship getting there, but once there will hold, cruise can be annoying as it can drop a mph or two under set speed then power back up again, but normally pretty reliable.
Is it a decent make/genuine fuel filter fitted? can be seen through drivers side wheel arch with susp in off road height.

I sometimes toy with the idea of a remap, but a few things stop me, 1 it has been utterly reliable for 5.5 years, 2 potential for engine damage with 140k on the clock, 3 ins issues, and 4 do I really need more power/speed in what is effectively a tank?

Ref brake fluid, it is special Dot4 class 6, and not std Dot 4.

gstuart · Jul 25, 2020

Happy days you’ve got the upgraded oil pump

indeed as @lynall mentions ref the EGR, if they actually used blanks, inc removing butterfly valve , plus making sure if they did remove the butterfly valve that the actuator pin was reinstalled

also make sure the EGR pipes are left in situ, ( MOT regs ) when I added blanks on mine I fitted them between the pipes and engine block

also make sure ur MAP sensor has been cleaned, they choke up and the throttle body is also clean

make sure if u ever do any software mod to ensure the self motoring of the turbo actuator isn’t overridden

u can test this by having someone turn the ign on and off whilst ur at the passenger side front wheel arch , ur hear the actuator motor as it moves

ref 70 mph, check ur intercooler hoses, inc the ones down by the turbo, is there’s any traces of oil around that area u know one is leaking

I went through the entire engine, EGRS, blanking , turbo actuator , intercooler hoses etc, etc, personally I wouldn’t bother mapping mine as it certainly doesn’t struggle by any means on the motorway , will also pull like a train uphill , well nearly anyway, lol

also ATF fluid might be old, also check software version etc , they will have all the equipment to check that

thks again for the update and plse let us know how things go ,

ps, Plse let us know how the MAP sensor is, thks

gstuart · Jul 25, 2020

lynall said:
EGR delete, did he just map it out or map and add physical blanks?
Should hold 70 plus easily, no rocket ship getting there, but once there will hold, cruise can be annoying as it can drop a mph or two under set speed then power back up again, but normally pretty reliable.
Is it a decent make/genuine fuel filter fitted? can be seen through drivers side wheel arch with susp in off road height.

I sometimes toy with the idea of a remap, but a few things stop me, 1 it has been utterly reliable for 5.5 years, 2 potential for engine damage with 140k on the clock, 3 ins issues, and 4 do I really need more power/speed in what is effectively a tank?

Ref brake fluid, it is special Dot4 class 6, and not std Dot 4.

hi mate

am the same ref mapping , sorted out the turbo actuator and many other things and it certainly doesn’t hang around , so will leave as is

very happy with it and likewise will sit at motorway speeds with little effort

lynall · Jul 26, 2020

gstuart said:
hi mate

am the same ref mapping , sorted out the turbo actuator and many other things and it certainly doesn’t hang around , so will leave as is

very happy with it and likewise will sit at motorway speeds with little effort

This is the only land rover that I have no ttwatted with in any real way, and I reckon that is a large part of its reliability!
I have chipped/tuend all the others (and there were many) and without fail the tuning caused issues at some point.
Head gaskets, cracked turbos, cracked heads, smoke, oh the kin smoke issues, lots of them, I kin hate diesels that make smoke.
I would love more power, but I aint going through all that again.

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