Nanocom Results / Rough Starting

ozzyboydeano · Mar 4, 2018

sierrafery said:
even if you dont care about the glow plug warning lamp when you start the engine the glow plugs have a "post-heat operation" after the engine was started untill the ECT input gets to 20*C, if it's cold this can take few minutes and beside other things is reducing the carbon build up so no matter how it starts it's a good for the engine to have them all in good working order

ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM - TD5 ; DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION 18-1-31
.......

The glow plugs are a vital part of the engine starting strategy.

The purpose of the glow plugs is:
l Assist cold engine start.
l Reduce exhaust emissions at low engine load/speed.

.......

Pre-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate prior to engine cranking. The ECM controls the pre-heat time of the glow plugs based on battery voltage and coolant temperature information via the glow plug relay.

Post-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate after the engine starts. The ECM controls the post-heat time based on ECT information. If the ECT fails the ECM will operate pre/post-heat time strategies with default values from its memory.

well aware but i live in australia so i dont live in in cold climates
also my engine has over 300000 on the clock glow plugs is least of my issues

also some newer larger diesel engines that i mainly work on they dont have glow plugs or any heating element placed in the air intake these engines have clocked over a million klicks with out the need of glow plugs

sierrafery · Mar 4, 2018

If you oepn a Td5 which had working glow plugs compare the carbon build up between the 4 cylinders which have plugs with the one which hasnt then you'll see the effect of them .... i'm sure that the diesel engine from the picture didnt have a glow plug as well so maybe not needed on the Td5 either

ozzyboydeano · Mar 4, 2018

carbon also builds up more at the rear of the inlet manifold

ozzyboydeano · Mar 5, 2018

sierrafery said:
If you oepn a Td5 which had working glow plugs compare the carbon build up between the 4 cylinders which have plugs with the one which hasnt then you'll see the effect of them .... i'm sure that the diesel engine from the picture didnt have a glow plug as well so maybe not needed on the Td5 either

some times you have to consider intake manifold some mitsubishu engines number 3 suffers the most on a 4 cylinder engine dispite they have glow plugs as the intake is off set the 4jx1 diesel is the same also the old d21
the td5 intake system is the exact same design as a volvo fh 16 no glow plugs ... the intake plenum collects more carbon at the rear ....infact it acts as a pocket for carbon to collect the most as well as breathing gasses .....also bearing in mind there is also more heat at the rear of the engine this allows the carbon to move more due to heat soak

this is well after when the glow plugs are turned off

you will also notice those who delte an EGR with a coked up manifold heat soak takes time .....number 5 cops the most ? ..if one does decide to remove the intake plenum you should notice number 5 is more dirt or more wetter than 1234 unfortuattly its the nature of the system

ozzyboydeano · Mar 5, 2018

edit some how it duplicated post

tom1979 · Mar 5, 2018

Going back to my problem, which started in November, could this possibly be just condensation in the fuel tank or some s**t diesel ? I don't use supermarket fuels in the defender but there's nothing stopping any of the garages having a bad batch ? The problem seems to have lessened since adding some redex

sierrafery · Mar 5, 2018

did you drive it hard since you added redex?... at least 50 miles under heavy throttle? that would be good to take it's effect

tom1979 · Mar 5, 2018

sierrafery said:
did you drive it hard since you added redex?... at least 50 miles under heavy throttle? that would be good to take it's effect

No only a bit of messing around round the field in the snow, was going to take it for a 120 mile round trip yesterday but the belt popped off about 30 metres from home so took the disco as I didn't want to risk it keep happening. The belt has been quite noisy since changing the alternator the other week....

Chalky. · Mar 6, 2018

@tom1979

Hi mate, have you replaced the glowplug relay (black relay) yet?
Mine was sounding shocking in the cold and refused to start unless some throttle was applied, was desperate so got a replacement britpart relay, and boom, good to go! Even down to -6 the other day!

I think I need to replace my glowplugs though, in the cold I turn the ignition, let the plug light go out, back the key off completely until it resets, and glow again, sometimes 3 x and the more I do it the smoother the start up

tom1979 · Mar 6, 2018

Gottschalk said:
@tom1979

Hi mate, have you replaced the glowplug relay (black relay) yet?
Mine was sounding shocking in the cold and refused to start unless some throttle was applied, was desperate so got a replacement britpart relay, and boom, good to go! Even down to -6 the other day!

I think I need to replace my glowplugs though, in the cold I turn the ignition, let the plug light go out, back the key off completely until it resets, and glow again, sometimes 3 x and the more I do it the smoother the start up

I replaced the glow plugs (the old ones were fine too) with new and tested good-brand ones, also left one hanging out so I could see it glow so they’re getting power. My problem is not starting, it starts really well, but with rough running for a few secs. If I leave to idle for 30 secs and rev the engine it’s completely normal. If I don’t wait (and I know I should) and try to hold the revs steady it will run, die and produce white/blue smoke for a second, then repeat this a few times until it runs completely normally. If I can ever find the part number for the glow plug relay I will replace it but I’m not 100% convinced it is glow plug related. The original problem was white smoke and roughness, much like injector washers, but since adding a good dose of redex the problem is less pronounced and the smoke has a slight blue tinge to it. Other than the initial running after startup (when cold and left a while) it runs really well. I am wondering if it is bad fuel (unlikely) or condensation in the tank (no idea what symptoms this would produce)

Dickeylefrog · Mar 6, 2018

Tom1979 did you sort it out? Could do with some help. Ive just dropped a reengineered engine in my 110 but its almost impossible to start when it does its a bit flat in places until the turbo kicks in and then it runs like a dream. Once warm everything runs fine. Ive new glow plugs which ive tested. new engine and injector loom so I know notlikely to be oil ingress in either. As I dont have access to a nanocom im scratting around for other possibilities. Ive discounted a fuel pressure regulator leak as Ive fixed that, ive replaced the crank position sensor but it runs fine when going. Im begining to think it might be something in the air route. I cleaned out the air plenum with degreasant but left the sensor in place, though it was never submerged and I used qwickstart through the Maff but it was not starting before thatjust scratching my head for ideas

tom1979 · Mar 6, 2018

Dickeylefrog said:
Tom1979 did you sort it out? Could do with some help. Ive just dropped a reengineered engine in my 110 but its almost impossible to start when it does its a bit flat in places until the turbo kicks in and then it runs like a dream. Once warm everything runs fine. Ive new glow plugs which ive tested. new engine and injector loom so I know notlikely to be oil ingress in either. As I dont have access to a nanocom im scratting around for other possibilities. Ive discounted a fuel pressure regulator leak as Ive fixed that, ive replaced the crank position sensor but it runs fine when going. Im begining to think it might be something in the air route. I cleaned out the air plenum with degreasant but left the sensor in place, though it was never submerged and I used qwickstart through the Maff but it was not starting before thatjust scratching my head for ideas

There’s plenty on here for non-starting problems but I’ve not got to the bottom of my problem yet, I’m just going to run it in the hope it either blows up of sorts itself out!

TD5’s need a very good battery and I found when looking for one for mine lots of places list the wrong ones. The one I’ve got is 115ah and 1000cca and i only have to look at it to start it!

Dickeylefrog · Mar 6, 2018

tom1979 said:
There’s plenty on here for non-starting problems but I’ve not got to the bottom of my problem yet, I’m just going to run it in the hope it either blows up of sorts itself out!

TD5’s need a very good battery and I found when looking for one for mine lots of places list the wrong ones. The one I’ve got is 115ah and 1000cca and i only have to look at it to start it!

Good point, ive got the 95ah battery from my 2.5na in there instead of the 110ah battery. But even with a jump start pack it struggled. Will consider changing the glow plug relay and swap batteries back over. But if you find anything let me know

tom1979 · Mar 6, 2018

Is it fully charged, what voltage is it showing ? It should start the vehicle ok. Worth putting it on a slow trickle charge to make sure it’s full.

Chalky. · Mar 7, 2018

tom1979 said:
I replaced the glow plugs (the old ones were fine too) with new and tested good-brand ones, also left one hanging out so I could see it glow so they’re getting power. My problem is not starting, it starts really well, but with rough running for a few secs. If I leave to idle for 30 secs and rev the engine it’s completely normal. If I don’t wait (and I know I should) and try to hold the revs steady it will run, die and produce white/blue smoke for a second, then repeat this a few times until it runs completely normally. If I can ever find the part number for the glow plug relay I will replace it but I’m not 100% convinced it is glow plug related. The original problem was white smoke and roughness, much like injector washers, but since adding a good dose of redex the problem is less pronounced and the smoke has a slight blue tinge to it. Other than the initial running after startup (when cold and left a while) it runs really well. I am wondering if it is bad fuel (unlikely) or condensation in the tank (no idea what symptoms this would produce)

Oh I see bud, yes sorry the relay wont need replacing if you're getting leccy to the plugs.

Very odd, as you say copper washers would of been my port of call too, I'm not sure if you've mentioned it previously in the thread, but you know the ally block that the fuel filter connects to, have you had a careful look at this, because when I re-chassied mine, the old one disintegrated when I unbolted it, and perhaps if it is on its way out it could be bleeding air in?

tom1979 · Mar 7, 2018

Gottschalk said:
Oh I see bud, yes sorry the relay wont need replacing if you're getting leccy to the plugs.

Very odd, as you say copper washers would of been my port of call too, I'm not sure if you've mentioned it previously in the thread, but you know the ally block that the fuel filter connects to, have you had a careful look at this, because when I re-chassied mine, the old one disintegrated when I unbolted it, and perhaps if it is on its way out it could be bleeding air in?

So far I have replaced (possible needlessly):

Injector washers x 3 times
Different set of injectors
Fuel filter housing
Fuel pump
Fuel pressure regulator
Glow plugs

I haven’t replaced the fuel pipes, however my “problem” occurs whether or not the system has been put on a prime cycle and after 30 secs there are no further problems.

I will post a video of how it is starting at the moment later on

Dickeylefrog · Mar 7, 2018

Tha

Gottschalk said:
Oh I see bud, yes sorry the relay wont need replacing if you're getting leccy to the plugs.

Very odd, as you say copper washers would of been my port of call too, I'm not sure if you've mentioned it previously in the thread, but you know the ally block that the fuel filter connects to, have you had a careful look at this, because when I re-chassied mine, the old one disintegrated when I unbolted it, and perhaps if it is on its way out it could be bleeding air in?

Thats helpful Gottschalk, I have been getting a more noisy than usual cycle on when running the fuel pump up before starting the truck. I havnt touched the fuel filter in the recent work but I got a new one in the service kit so might be worthwhile changing it and seeing if it is the problem

Chalky. · Mar 7, 2018

Dickeylefrog said:
Tha

Thats helpful Gottschalk, I have been getting a more noisy than usual cycle on when running the fuel pump up before starting the truck. I havnt touched the fuel filter in the recent work but I got a new one in the service kit so might be worthwhile changing it and seeing if it is the problem

I would say that the pump is almost certainly it! My brothers 110 td5 used to squeal like crazy for a few weeks before the in tank pump finally gave up the ghost! After replacement, it was absolutely perfect! Be very careful not to kink or break any of the fuel lines feeding into top of pump ontop of the tank, really take your time here! Also worth measuring and cutting an inspection hole in your rear floor rather than trying to drop the tank out underneath, much easier and less risk of pulling and snapping pipes/connectors!

Chalky. · Mar 7, 2018

tom1979 said:
So far I have replaced (possible needlessly):

Injector washers x 3 times
Different set of injectors
Fuel filter housing
Fuel pump
Fuel pressure regulator
Glow plugs

I haven’t replaced the fuel pipes, however my “problem” occurs whether or not the system has been put on a prime cycle and after 30 secs there are no further problems.

I will post a video of how it is starting at the moment later on

Bloody hell that sounds infuriating! I don't have any more recommendations as you've already done the work I would of to eliminate the problem, very confusing :/

tom1979 · Mar 7, 2018

Well f**k me I set up the camera etc and it started perfectly from cold. Tried it a second time while the video was uploading and there was the slightest amount of blue smoke but no roughness.

Nanocom Results / Rough Starting

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