Nanocom analysis - EDC fuelling

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I guess you're never going to succeed unless you try.

What are the sorts of issues I'm likely to encounter? Any security bolts or known nasties?

Any items I'm likely to need to replace not mentioned in RAVE like rubber o'rings or gaskets or similar?
 
Grrrrrr said:
I guess you're never going to succeed unless you try.

What are the sorts of issues I'm likely to encounter? Any security bolts or known nasties?

Any items I'm likely to need to replace not mentioned in RAVE like rubber o'rings or gaskets or similar?
Click to expand...

This Gasket Set Lower BMW 2.5TD STC2012 Island 4x4 - Specialists in Land Rover and Range Rover Parts and accessories for all models. UK and worldwide mail order. you won't use everything. Under no circumstances remove the oil pump. And a tube of Hylomar.
 
Grrrrr, mine is in exactly the same boat as yours, when it was on nanocom the timing was something like 90%, way off what it should be, thing is though, it still runs as sweet as a nut!
 
P38Penguin said:
Grrrrr, mine is in exactly the same boat as yours, when it was on nanocom the timing was something like 90%, way off what it should be, thing is though, it still runs as sweet as a nut!
Click to expand...

90% modulation is not how far the timing is out, it is how much deflection is being applied to the timing solenoid to correct static timing error and return injection point to it's proper position, from in this instance retarded. Modulation should be around 50% anything much lower than that the static is advanced anything way above that it is retarded. Your car runs well because the error is being corrected by the timing solenoid. Get the static corrected and at 90% check the chains. Valves making love to pistons is not a pretty sound.
 
P38Penguin said:
Grrrrr, mine is in exactly the same boat as yours, when it was on nanocom the timing was something like 90%, way off what it should be, thing is though, it still runs as sweet as a nut!
Click to expand...

Interesting. Mine had a range (at idle!) of 43 to 94 with an average of 81.

What's the range on your over a 5 minute period when warm? Is the range indicative of tension on the chain changing? Would be nice to see a trace of someone with an engine just setup ... JohnnyCrash, perhaps?
 
Grrrrrr said:
Interesting. Mine had a range (at idle!) of 43 to 94 with an average of 81.

What's the range on your over a 5 minute period when warm? Is the range indicative of tension on the chain changing? Would be nice to see a trace of someone with an engine just setup ... JohnnyCrash, perhaps?
Click to expand...

If the timing modulation fluctuates at idle warm engine, if the number four injector is sound, it would suggest to me that one or more links in the bottom chain are worn to extreme. With the worn links being opened and closed as they go around the sprockets. When i did my chains the bottom one was reasonably fine with equal wear all around. The top cam chain had severe toothache in three links. Two links had 1.5 mm or so play in them one almost 2.5 mm. The chain could not have lasted much longer without parting. You have had the readings interpreted for you, believe it or not as you think fit.


· Timing modulation (%): This value is the amount of percentage change that the EDC
· ECU applies to the injection timing. It can be checked in conjunction with the Injection
set points and actual values. On a fully warm engine this value should steadily remain
between 45% and 55%. There should be no erratic fluctuations.
 
Last edited:
Don't doubt you, Wammers.

Asked for a quote from an independent Landy chap down here but no response as yet.

Been reading through RAVE again this evening in case I end up doing it. Only just done the coolant, radiator, thermostat and waterpump so should be easy enough to get them out again. Dread to think what will happen if I try to get the aircon compressor or power-steering pump off. Probably seized tight. Exhaust manifold heat-shield - can guess how easy that will be. That just leaves the sump and top of the engine to get off. Looking like a long job though, a weekender for me. All rather daunting.

Although this is a different engine I found the video on timing the pump helpful. Nice and clear. Setting the Land Rover Bosch VE FIPE with a dial gauge - YouTube
 
Grrrrrr said:
Don't doubt you, Wammers.

Asked for a quote from an independent Landy chap down here but no response as yet.

Been reading through RAVE again this evening in case I end up doing it. Only just done the coolant, radiator, thermostat and waterpump so should be easy enough to get them out again. Dread to think what will happen if I try to get the aircon compressor or power-steering pump off. Probably seized tight. Exhaust manifold heat-shield - can guess how easy that will be. That just leaves the sump and top of the engine to get off. Looking like a long job though, a weekender for me. All rather daunting.

Although this is a different engine I found the video on timing the pump helpful. Nice and clear. Setting the Land Rover Bosch VE FIPE with a dial gauge - YouTube
Click to expand...

I believe you can remove the timing cover by taking the sump off, no need to remove cylinder head. Resealing head to timing cover is where the Hylomar comes in. Head was off mine when i did chains so pretty easy to do. If you are not confident don't do it. Although if you know what you are doing it's a fairly straight forwards job.
 
Necessity is the mother of invention. :)

I can usually work things out and I have a reasonable set of basic tools, although no dial gauge (yet!). I've done enough jobs to recognise that nothing ever goes to plan and there are little tricks that you learn or pick up doing jobs that can seriously stuff you when doing it the first time. Not to mention the convenience of a decent lift and workshop of tools a your back.

OK. If the quote is out of scope I'll start a new thread with any questions once I've got it straight in my head as we've drifted off the Nanocom topic somewhat. The gearbox and clutch wasn't that bad once I got in there. In some ways this is easier (lighter!) but just a bit more fiddly.

I'm still interested in the range in values experienced by P38Penguin though - and indeed any engines running as they should.
 
wammers said:
If the timing modulation fluctuates at idle warm engine, if the number four injector is sound, it would suggest to me that one or more links in the bottom chain are worn to extreme. With the worn links being opened and closed as they go around the sprockets. When i did my chains the bottom one was reasonably fine with equal wear all around. The top cam chain had severe toothache in three links. Two links had 1.5 mm or so play in them one almost 2.5 mm. The chain could not have lasted much longer without parting. You have had the readings interpreted for you, believe it or not as you think fit.


· Timing modulation (%): This value is the amount of percentage change that the EDC
· ECU applies to the injection timing. It can be checked in conjunction with the Injection
set points and actual values. On a fully warm engine this value should steadily remain
between 45% and 55%. There should be no erratic fluctuations.
Click to expand...

How do I check number 4 injector is working properly? Sounds like that needs checking first?
 
Grrrrrr said:
How do I check number 4 injector is working properly? Sounds like that needs checking first?
Click to expand...

It will be fine if Nonocom is throwing no faults. Number four injector measures actual start of injection. That is compared to readings from CPS and adjusted by ECU via timing solenoid to correct any error in pump timing.
 
Nonocom? I can see what you're thinking!

Faults

I always get (checked ignition on but engine not running):

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 0
WATER TEMP = 64
OCCURANCE = 10

I have no cruise control so I guess that's OK.

I've just started the car, cleared the faults and rerun and I got:

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 33
WATER TEMP = 159
OCCURANCE = 10

Is the RPM significant? Water temperature a bit high? Tried clearing faults again (engine still running) and then re-read and got:

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 31
WATER TEMP = 142
OCCURANCE = 10

RPM still low. Water temperature coming down. The car was used this afternoon so guess something may have got hot. Bit surprised.

To be fair I just assumed the RPM was to do with the cruise control and ignored it. Guess that may not be the case?

I did have a chart of RPM needle vs RPM crankshaft in one of the spreadsheets. Hold on ... see picture. Blue line is difference is positive where the needle is higher value than crank and negative where needle is less than crank.

Needle range 0 rpm to 2707 rpm with average of 1157 rpm.
Crank range 637 rpm to 2776 rpm with average of 1287 rpm.

EDCliveSwitchesRevsNeedleVsCrank_20140727.jpg
 
Grrrrrr said:
Nonocom? I can see what you're thinking!

Faults

I always get (checked ignition on but engine not running):

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 0
WATER TEMP = 64
OCCURANCE = 10

I have no cruise control so I guess that's OK.

I've just started the car, cleared the faults and rerun and I got:

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 33
WATER TEMP = 159
OCCURANCE = 10

Is the RPM significant? Water temperature a bit high? Tried clearing faults again (engine still running) and then re-read and got:

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 31
WATER TEMP = 142
OCCURANCE = 10

RPM still low. Water temperature coming down. The car was used this afternoon so guess something may have got hot. Bit surprised.

To be fair I just assumed the RPM was to do with the cruise control and ignored it. Guess that may not be the case?

I did have a chart of RPM needle vs RPM crankshaft in one of the spreadsheets. Hold on ... see picture. Blue line is difference is positive where the needle is higher value than crank and negative where needle is less than crank.

Needle range 0 rpm to 2707 rpm with average of 1157 rpm.
Crank range 637 rpm to 2776 rpm with average of 1287 rpm.

View attachment 62870
Click to expand...

Go into BECM and switch cruise control off if you haven't got it fitted. The BECM thinks you have it. Then put the bloody thing away.
 
Grrrrrr said:
Nonocom? I can see what you're thinking!

Faults

I always get (checked ignition on but engine not running):

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 0
WATER TEMP = 64
OCCURANCE = 10

I have no cruise control so I guess that's OK.

I've just started the car, cleared the faults and rerun and I got:

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 33
WATER TEMP = 159
OCCURANCE = 10

Is the RPM significant? Water temperature a bit high? Tried clearing faults again (engine still running) and then re-read and got:

CRUISE CONTROL SIGNAL OUT OF RANGE
TYPE: TOO HIGH, LOGGED CURRENT
RPM = 31
WATER TEMP = 142
OCCURANCE = 10

RPM still low. Water temperature coming down. The car was used this afternoon so guess something may have got hot. Bit surprised.

To be fair I just assumed the RPM was to do with the cruise control and ignored it. Guess that may not be the case?

I did have a chart of RPM needle vs RPM crankshaft in one of the spreadsheets. Hold on ... see picture. Blue line is difference is positive where the needle is higher value than crank and negative where needle is less than crank.

Needle range 0 rpm to 2707 rpm with average of 1157 rpm.
Crank range 637 rpm to 2776 rpm with average of 1287 rpm.

View attachment 62870
Click to expand...

I too get some odd readings like that on starting, if cleared, they don't come back until it's started again. I assume it's down to electrical noise from the starter or low voltage at the ECU.
 
Datatek said:
I too get some odd readings like that on starting, if cleared, they don't come back until it's started again. I assume it's down to electrical noise from the starter or low voltage at the ECU.
Click to expand...

Yes you can get "invalid faults" coming up from time to time. Think he needs to put the bloody thing away before he drives himself daft. :D:D:D
 
wammers said:
Go into BECM and switch cruise control off if you haven't got it fitted. The BECM thinks you have it. Then put the bloody thing away.
Click to expand...

BECM setting for Cruise = Not Set. Always has been.

That cruise error has always been there, although now I think about it I cannot remember if the rpm and water temp ones have or not. Doesn't matter how many times I clear the fault, engine running or not, go back in and there it is.
 
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