My TD4 starts bad when it gets hot - and what fixed it.

Hard Drive · Mar 7, 2020

My problem is poor starting when the engine warms up. The hotter it gets the worse the problem. It turns over all right, but chugs away until it catches. The battery is good.

It’s a 2004 Freelander 1 TD4.

I have done with new parts,

Low pressure pump and filter replaced.

Replaced all seals on High Pressure pump and regulator, a real bitch to do it.

Injectors feedback test carried out and found okay, the No2 was a wee bit high.

MAF sensor replaced.

Inlet air temp sensor replaced.

Fuel rail pressure sensor replaced and wiring checked all the way to the ECU box. Does anyone know where I can get a replacement seal for this sensor. Its metal and very small. The new sensor came without one.

No DTCs and diagnostics checked out okay as well using an iCarsoft. Fuel pressures, etc, compared with what others have written on Web.

I’ve now ordered a camshaft sensor, due any day. This is where I am, having read what others have written on Landyzone. It beats Wikipedia anyday.

I nearly forgot. I removed all the injectors and stripped the nozzles for cleaning. New rubber seals and washers fitted.The engine runs perfectly with no vibes or fluctuation on the rev needle. No smoke fron the backend. Just plain sailing after fixing a diesel leak at injector feed pipe union. My bad. What a mess that made..

Im really at a loss here, until I fit the cam sensor.

Might anyone have any other suggections? Just in case the cam sensor doesnt fix it so can be prepared.

Ta.

PRO · Mar 7, 2020

Have a look here, too long for me to read don't have a td4 anymore: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/83db5a1b/files/uploaded/75_zt_td4_FAULT_DIAGNOSIS.pdf

Says most likely fuel supply. Put some frozen chicken wing on the camshaft sensor and see

andyfreelandy · Mar 7, 2020

I had one that did the same, but it logged a cam sensor fault code and it was, indeed, the cam sensor.

Arctic2 · Mar 8, 2020

The cam sensor is the problem 99.9 %of the time when hot starting after taking the car for a run, stop off somewhere turn engine return 5 minutes later and hard to start or wil not start at all until cooled down, easy test take the car for a run get it nice and hot return home wait the 2-5 minutes you know how long as its your car that's been showing the hard starting, when it is hard to start or will not start remove the cam sensor easy to do small 5mm socket will do the job, pop it into a freezer bag chuck it into the freezer for about 5 minutes then refit see if the car starts on the button.

Hard Drive · Mar 8, 2020

PRO said:
Have a look here, too long for me to read don't have a td4 anymore: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/83db5a1b/files/uploaded/75_zt_td4_FAULT_DIAGNOSIS.pdf

Says most likely fuel supply. Put some frozen chicken wing on the camshaft sensor and see

Thanks. Im printing what you sent as I write.

Hard Drive · Mar 8, 2020

Arctic2 said:
The cam sensor is the problem 99.9 %of the time when hot starting after taking the car for a run, stop off somewhere turn engine return 5 minutes later and hard to start or wil not start at all until cooled down, easy test take the car for a run get it nice and hot return home wait the 2-5 minutes you know how long as its your car that's been showing the hard starting, when it is hard to start or will not start remove the cam sensor easy to do small 5mm socket will do the job, pop it into a freezer bag chuck it into the freezer for about 5 minutes then refit see if the car starts on the button.

I'm going to do it. The frozen chickens a great idea as well. Might try em both.

Hard Drive · Mar 8, 2020

There is one other question. Might anyone know the wiring codes for the High Pressure Fuel Line Pressure sensor.
Their are three wires, yellow brown and red, I think. Can anyone tell which wire goes to which numbered contact on the sensors plug.
Ta.

andyfreelandy · Mar 9, 2020

Haynes says.
Pin1 red/white
Pin 2 yellow
Pin 3 brown

Hard Drive · Mar 12, 2020

I replaced the camshaft sensor today, with a new one, when the engine was hot and there was no difference. I froze the original and refitted it, with the same result. I did an Injector fuel return check as well, and 1, 3 & 4 Injectors produced 35mm after 5 minutes. No2 = 40mm. I ran two tests consecutively with the same results. I have replaced the feeback hoses as well. I’ll try anything.

I checked the wiring between the Camshaft sensor and the ECU – no problem. I’ve also replaced the coolant sensor too. All Voltages and earths are fine.

But it persists in a poor start when it gets hotter and worst when hot. It does start when really hot, but struggles to run when I release the starter mode.

I am at a complete loss here.

I tested the system with my iCarsoft and compared the resul;ts of fuel pressures, temps, etc. with what I’ve seen on Landyzone and the web. It’s all in order.

What am I missing? Might the Fuel Temperature Switch that returns fuel to the tank be responsible? I’m clutching at straws here.
There are no DTc's on record and the fault is definitely because of heat.

Hard Drive · Mar 13, 2020

Having slept on the problem I have come to a decision. I'm replacing the starter motor with a new one.
Thinking about it, there is a peculiar screeching noise from it when starting, and when hot I'm certain it's turning the engine at a slower pace.
I'll let you know how it goes.

Arctic2 · Mar 13, 2020

Don't rule out the HPFP regulator, but the best bet is to get it one a reader, as changing parts just to find the problem will be expensive,

Hard Drive · Mar 13, 2020

Arctic2 said:
Don't rule out the HPFP regulator, but the best bet is to get it one a reader, as changing parts just to find the problem will be expensive,

Hi Arctic. I did the HPFP seals when I did the HP Pump. All the seals seemed okay but were replaced anyway, especially as I had gone to all the trouble of buying the retaining bolt/screw to hold the sprocket in position and had the seals to do the job.
I don't really mind replacing all the bits as my intention is to rejuvenate my car, making it reliable for a long time.
I've decided to fit the contact repair kit instead of buying a new starter. Some research led me to make this decision. Ebay sells them for about £10. Much cheaper than £89.
I'm now waiting for the kit, while the problem persists. Everything Ive done has made no difference.

hd3 · Mar 13, 2020

Thinking about it, there is a peculiar screeching noise from it when starting, and when hot I'm certain it's turning the engine at a slower pace.

starter on mine made an odd chirping sound .. 't were a sign that the battery had had it's day
( 'cause the solenoid actuator thing .. be slow to move .. relative to how it should )
at same time the door locks made squeaky sounds when activated ..
new battery solved those issues .. ( well .. no choice .. other battery simply died a week later )

~~~~~~~

hard-to-start when warm / hot ..

from memory re. an old webpage from https://www.tuning-diesels.com
( page no longer online that i can see )
1 reason were a knackered camshaft sensor
other were .. faulty injector(s)

as evidently the crd type injectors can be fine in one cycle
but fail in another
like .. fine under load .. but messing up under idle ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hard Drive · Mar 13, 2020

Quote, starter on mine made an odd chirping sound .. 't were a sign that the battery had had it's day
( 'cause the solenoid actuator thing .. be slow to move .. relative to how it should )
at same time the door locks made squeaky sounds when activated ..
new battery solved those issues .. ( well .. no choice .. other battery simply died a week later )

I considered the battery as well, knowing a lot can go wrong if its faulty. Mine is as close to perfect as possible. I wish it had been that simple.

Arctic2 · Mar 13, 2020

Hard Drive said:
Hi Arctic.
I've decided to fit the contact repair kit instead of buying a new starter. Some research led me to make this decision. Ebay sells them for about £10. Much cheaper than £89.
I'm now waiting for the kit, while the problem persists. Everything Ive done has made no difference.

Good call I did all mine as soon as I purchased my FL1 R40 diesels x 3 & my sons MGZT M47, also quite a few at our meets, about an hours work and your starter should be tip top.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROV...804639?hash=item444cd5039f:g:OAQAAMXQcVNQ6ynp.

Hard Drive · Mar 14, 2020

Arctic2 said:
Good call I did all mine as soon as I purchased my FL1 R40 diesels x 3 & my sons MGZT M47, also quite a few at our meets, about an hours work and your starter should be tip top.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROV...804639?hash=item444cd5039f:g:OAQAAMXQcVNQ6ynp.

Thanks for the info & photo's concerning your starter rebuild. I will be following suit just as soon as the kit arrives. I was uncertain about removing both the air-inlets, but now will.
Thanks.

guineafowl21 · Mar 14, 2020

Hard Drive said:
struggles to run when I release the starter mode.

Is it missing when it eventually starts? Could still be an injector. Can you identify which one is struggling by unplugging one by one as it’s running roughly?

pdpjpr · Mar 14, 2020

I had all sorts of problems with my TD4, misfires, irregular tick over, loud crack noise on misfire. Changed the fuel pressure sensor wiring loom and had no issues since. Mine always ran fine when it was cold but issues started when engine warmed up.

Hard Drive · Mar 15, 2020

guineafowl21 said:
Is it missing when it eventually starts? Could still be an injector. Can you identify which one is struggling by unplugging one by one as it’s running roughly?

It's the starting!
When cold it starts with a slight struggle.
As it gets warmer it takes more turns to get started with a slight screeching sound from the starter area.
When hot, it has to turn over a lot of times before it kicks into life. The rev's seem sluggish as it turns too.

AndrewH · Mar 15, 2020

I recently had exactly the same ‘hot starting’ issue with my FL1 TD4. The problem started after I added some gunk remover to a tank of fuel and it turns out I clogged the fuel filter! Replaced the filter and everything’s fine.

My TD4 starts bad when it gets hot - and what fixed it.

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