Freelander 1 My TD4 SE Auto Misfire Thread

[Gaj1612]

Just a little update that I think is relevant to solving some of the misfire issues. This morning I was monitoring the same engine data as I have previously. Whilst I was stuck behind a slow moving vehicle, I felt the engine missing slightly. The gearbox was in 4th with the TC locked. I was just on the throttle at the time with the engine turning at 2,000 Rpm. I took a quick glance at the diagnostics screen. I noted that the engine temperature was shown as 62°C. All other readings were as I expected to see.
So now I'm thinking that the engine temperature has a massive influence on the way it runs, particularly at light throttle settings.
Investigation will continue.

watching this thread with great interest mate. i shall be changing out my thermostat as soon as i get time. hopefully itll atleast make it slightly better.

 

[Nodge68]

The more I think about it, the running temperature seems a logical explanation. The engine temperature has never been correct, ever since I bought it. The engine now runs beautifully compared to how it did. I'm now going to refit the £25 MAF to see what effect that has.

 

[andrew arends]

There is another post about misfires and pinking on here, poor chap had changed just about everything over 18 months and then changed the injectors, after that it worked a treat, this was also after something called a blowback test ( which it passed), and injectors can Be reconditioned, kits available on all Internet stores lol, supposed to be changed every 100 k apparently? Hope this helps

 

[Gaj1612]

The more I think about it, the running temperature seems a logical explanation. The engine temperature has never been correct, ever since I bought it. The engine now runs beautifully compared to how it did. I'm now going to refit the £25 MAF to see what effect that has.

have you got a link to the stat you fitted mate?

 

[Nodge68]

have you got a link to the stat you fitted mate?

I just bought a Renault 5 thermostat from my local auto factors. I paid about £6 but I get a trade discount. It's a strange thing that sits in the top hose. It's this thing here.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RENAULT-FUEGO-1-6-GATES-Thermostat-coolant-80-85-2348b/301640885635?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=327b57ad9f484fa2bf672849b30a64d7&pid=100338&rk=8&rkt=16&sd=172211278734
Fitting it into the hose is the hardest part. There's tons on the net about using them.

 

[Skinny Mike]

Hello, me again, back off holiday.
Engine temperature makes a huge difference to the td4, a stuck open thermostat will sap power. The gauge should be half way, 9 o'clock on my older td4. Anyone who drives a cold td4 will know they're sluggish and take around 10 minutes of driving to start behaving normal.
The Renault thermostat should help the engine run at a better temperature. But I'm still with my original diagnosis of faulty Injector /loom, from the previous thread.
Keep the updates coming.
Mike

 

[hd3]

this may or may not be relevant .. but ..
i noticed a small amount of ' surge ' on a trailing-throttle ..
downhill at about 2000 rpm ..

that's with my ron-box on max. / pierburg maf .. setting ..
changed it to the max. / bosch maf .. setting ..
and the surging did not occur ..
( same hill / throttle / rpm )

only difference there be the change in maf signal
( pierburg signal slightly stronger )

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as for what i wrote regarding the air-filter surround removal
last summer i blocked all the extra holes in the air-box
so as that only air from the intake ducting itself would enter
( and none from the engine bay area )

noted that when fitting the air-filter + surround material
there be no clearance between the filter and air-box floor ..
( no idea about the air-box ceiling .. have not checked )
so that in itself could have offered a flow restriction ..
and removing the surround material has allowed air to flow better underneath
( just a theory .. )

and as far as blocking the extra holes in the airbox ..
went thru heavy rain .. splashed thru standing water .. many a time
saw no sign of water having made it to the air-filter housing ..
( as in those small holes on the air-box floor methinks are for water drainage )
i've no intention to go wading .. but just in case ..
will drill some small holes on the initial intake tube .. that's fitted to the wing
looks to be an ' elbow ' bend facing downward ..
holes to be drilled in the bottom of that ..
it should provide a water trap-drainage .. similar to how some hgv air-intakes are designed

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Nodge68]

Hello, me again, back off holiday.
Engine temperature makes a huge difference to the td4, a stuck open thermostat will sap power. The gauge should be half way, 9 o'clock on my older td4. Anyone who drives a cold td4 will know they're sluggish and take around 10 minutes of driving to start behaving normal.
The Renault thermostat should help the engine run at a better temperature. But I'm still with my original diagnosis of faulty Injector /loom, from the previous thread.
Keep the updates coming.
Mike

Well Mike. Since doing the thermostat mod. The engine has been running well. The Freelander took all 5 of us and our 5 bikes the 25 Miles to Wadebridge for a cycle ride on the Camal Trail, returning us without issue, some hours later. Later on it took us another 25 Miles to wickes in Truro to get 40 decking boards, which went on the roof rack, before taking us home again. It's more responsive, hasn't really missed a beat and appears to be more economical too. Looking good so far. So I'm hoping the temperature problem was the cause of my running issues.

 

[Gaj1612]

Well Mike. Since doing the thermostat mod. The engine has been running well. The Freelander took all 5 of us and our 5 bikes the 25 Miles to Wadebridge for a cycle ride on the Camal Trail, returning us without issue, some hours later. Later on it took us another 25 Miles to wickes in Truro to get 40 decking boards, which went on the roof rack, before taking us home again. It's more responsive, hasn't really missed a beat and appears to be more economical too. Looking good so far. So I'm hoping the temperature problem was the cause of my running issues.

glad to hear its running better mate, i have just ordered a new thermostat to put in mine, hopefully will have similar results although i dont think itll cure the problem. i think i may have an injector on its way as it now makes a clattering noise when its cold when revved, then when left to idle misfires.

 

[Skinny Mike]

Just a point of note.
You said about the oil level. The td4 will run cold if there is too much oil in the engine??
I found this out when a mate of mine helping me to change the oil thought the level was over the second line near the wiggly bit. After driving it for a couple of days I noticed it wouldn't get over about 8 o'clock on the dial. After checking coolants etc I couldn't think of anything else so checked the oil as it was the only thing We'd messed with. It had around 3/4 of a liter more than it should have. After sucking it out, it ran at Normal temperature. Don't understand why this would make it run cold, but it did.
Mike

 

[hd3]

Don't understand why this would make it run cold, but it did.

maybe something to do with the heat exchanger in the oil filter housing ?
see attached pic ..
( plus .. engine oil acts as a coolant anyway
( more oil .. added cooling factor ..
( although more crankcase pressure as well probably

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Joe_H]

Hi Nodge
Just out of interest - why have you not tried changing the original stat as opposed to adding one ? (Apologies if I have misread or missed something)
Also, I would consider the coolant temperature sender as a possible culprit (even though the Renault extra stat seems to help you seem to have fluctuating temps)
Any fluctuation in the signal integrity from the cts will immediately effect engine fuelling. (and obviously the temp readings)
Anyway - it seems to be ok at the moment so that is good.
Hope it stays fine mate
Joe

 

[Nodge68]

Hi Nodge
Just out of interest - why have you not tried changing the original stat as opposed to adding one ? (Apologies if I have misread or missed something)
Also, I would consider the coolant temperature sender as a possible culprit (even though the Renault extra stat seems to help you seem to have fluctuating temps)
Any fluctuation in the signal integrity from the cts will immediately effect engine fuelling. (and obviously the temp readings)
Anyway - it seems to be ok at the moment so that is good.
Hope it stays fine mate
Joe

The reason for not fitting the correct stat has 2 answers. 1st is, I'm too tight to spend £40+ on the correct stat. 2nd I can't be bothered with spending 4+ hours and countless swear words doing the change. It's in a stupid location to work on and the original type stats only last a couple years anyway.
Using the Renault stat is a well documented mod for many vehicle's with similarly stupidly expensive or difficult to change stats.

All thermostats give a slight temperature swing in operation, not just my Renault in line stat.
A fluctuation of up 10°C is perfectly normal as the engine loadings vary while driving.

 

[Joe_H]

Hi Nodge, wow ! - I didn't realise it was in such a difficult location. That is crazy - 4 HOURS ??? (and the 40 quid - yikes)
I can see why you went the 'alternative' route.
Providing it works, all is good.
Joe

 

[Bandit127]

Having had 2 or 3 Renault 5 stats fail quite quickly in a previous Audi A4 2.5 tdi, I opted to spend the money for the alloy housing (with stat) that was developed for the Rover. It wasn't cheap but my water temp is still stable 3 months later.

As Nodge says - it beats the hell out of trying to replace the original stat and it works fine. And if this stat goes I am 8 screws away from putting a cheap new one in.

Pic by Bluemax

 

[Skinny Mike]

I believe an update is in order @Nodge68

Mike

 

[Nodge68]

I believe an update is in order @Nodge68

Mike

The misfire has gone!!
First I made sure the engine was running at the correct temperature. I then put an injector cleaner through it. The misfire has gone, it disappeared almost as fast as it appeared. I suspect that I picked up some duff fuel, as the misfire started soon after filling up at a budget station. I've now switched to Shell V Power which it seams to like. I've fitted a Synergy 2a without a hint of misfiring, so it appears that it's fixed itself. It's running better than I thought a TD4 could, so I'm pleased with it.

 

[Skinny Mike]

Excellent news
What setting do you have the Synergy on? I use 2, which gives a nice balance of grunt and economy.
Mike

 

[Nodge68]

Excellent news
What setting do you have the Synergy on? I use 2, which gives a nice balance of grunt and economy.
Mike

I've got the Synergy on 5/10 with the MAF compensation on as I know my Bosch MAF is failing. This was proved because there's a huge difference in performance between the compensation off and on.
I've also got a Ron turbo boost thingy to fit in the future and I'm going to fit an actual EGR delete as the EGR valve, although deactivated, causes a huge air flow restriction.
I'm happy with the way it's working so far. It's very different to drive compared to a V6 but also just as nice.

 

[Skinny Mike]

I've literally just put mine back on (day off looking after the dog) after I sorted the electrical gremlin.
Ticking over nicely, going for a run in a bit.
I read about the turbo boost thingy, sounds interesting. You'll have to let us know how it goes. I was reading @hd3 has put one on, think I'll do the inlet mod at some point, got to be better than the plastic job!
Mike