Mot... Fail :(

Just had two pages of MOT failures.

Mostly relating to steering and play in it, which is fair enough, but a few questions for you.


Does a 1964 vehicle need emergency flashers? I have them but they are dimmer than normal indicators which he failed it on. As my 1971 Spitfire doesn't have them at all wonder if i actually need them for the MOT?
He also failed it as the hazards work by turning the indicator on and a switch - apparently this isn't acceptable?

My exhaust currently exits my the passenger side wheel and ends. It used to have a back box under the drivers seat but due to an offroading incident it doesn't any more. It was failed for having an incomplete exhaust... is this fair? It doesn't need the back box or anything, though i would accept it should maybe exit behind the 'cock pit' rather than in front.

He didn't test the brakes as it was 'too un-safe with the steering as is' - but - i thought brake tests were done on the rolling road things - which you can't do with the series... am i right? How else do you do a brake test?

Considering i have 14 days, i have a lot to do in that time if i want a free re-test!

awww mike

i know, sucks, spent ages preparing it and checking things too - (I obviously did a crap job!)

so what happened on the way there?

was at a junction and everything just died (inc. all electrics.) Just as the lights changed green too. So jumped out, poked the fuel solenoid and poked the batteries and he started up again...

things like that happen some times!


Just found the answer to my hazards light question - really shouldn't have wasted my time fitting one last night as it doesn't need it anyway.

Ok so, no you do not need hazards, as long as you have not got any if you have they hay to work, so take them off. as to brake test, on a landy the handbrake should be tested on a hill, so yes a road test, but the mot is ment to test for exsesive play in stering not any play. a lot of new testers dont know the diference. yours has a stearing box and a lot of ball joints, most testers only see a rack and two joints. test them your self.

to be fair, i'm happy to admit the steering is knackered - it was on the to-do list anyway, i don't think it is **DANGEROUS** as it says on the test certificate.

What about testing the drum brakes? Is that just done on the road test too? They aren't great... but they never have been and never will be... it's a Land Rover! You just drive it to the ability of the vehicle, so, slowly and keep your eyes well ahead to spot any up coming problems

Foot brake can be tested on the rolling road or on the road test with a tapply meter, brakes should be ok if they are maintained!

Take the hazards off...or "disable" them - so without hazards connected, there is nothing to test - it does not need them.

The brakes can be tested to make sure there is not significance in left/right balance (is it just for steered axles that applies to?)- which I think they can either do as a road test or on the rollers? They can also test efficiency on the rollers on a Series landie. There is no reason why not on a Series? Unless perhaps it's in permanent 4WD (broke?!) or something - we dont have related issues such as traction control, perm 4WD, LSD etc. Or am I wrong on that one?

The exhaust system is so cheap on the Series it doesn't make sense not to fix it really?

rustyrhinos said:

The exhaust system is so cheap on the Series it doesn't make sense not to fix it really?

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it's a 200tdi.

I did have some flex pipe and a back box from a 200tdi under the passenger seat, but, it came off. Thinking of just a straight pipe back now with no back box or anything.

Need to look at the steering box and see if it will adjust or can easily have a few cheap parts replaced or if its going to be a major expense

I might say they put it on the rollers at their cost and any damage i'll hold them fully responsible for. That might be enough to put them off it!

Having recently had my MOT for my series 2, I find it amazing that anything thats had basic checks can fail an MOT.

The tester only looked at the chassis/mounts/steering/brakes/lights/exhaust.

All obvious areas that any DIY mechanic should be able to self check fairly effectively before entering for an MOT.

Or perhaps thats just me.

Mark

Bump said:

it's a 200tdi.



I might say they put it on the rollers at their cost and any damage i'll hold them fully responsible for. That might be enough to put them off it!

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If something breaks on a simple rolling road test its not their fault..... its cos its knackered, try and threaten that they are responsible will probably get their backs up and no chance of a pass

Even a 4wd defender can be brake tested on a 2wd rolling road as at the slow speeds encountered the centre diff will cope, however most stations will have a Taply meter or common sense and drive it forwards n back rather than chance it... not an issue for yours as its 2wd

Think I would have tried to adjust the steering first as you knew it was bad

I did have some flex pipe and a back box from a 200tdi under the passenger seat, but, it came off. Thinking of just a straight pipe back now with no back box or anything.

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it came off??? an exhaust is supposed to be secure?? what was it joined with? gaffa tape?? straight pipe is okay as long as not excessively noisy... feel free to threaten to hold them responsible for any damage and lets see if your straight pipe is suddenly... 'excessively noisy' and a fail

as has been said getting an MOT on something as simple a a series Landy is very easy.. its all simple mechanics... brakes should never be bad, they are very good as long as you look after and adjust them properly and at the end of the day they keep you and others alive

Cheers Steve

ebbadger said:

it came off??? an exhaust is supposed to be secure?? what was it joined with? gaffa tape?? straight pipe is okay as long as not excessively noisy... feel free to threaten to hold them responsible for any damage and lets see if your straight pipe is suddenly... 'excessively noisy' and a fail

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Whilst off roading it got caught and this ripped the rubber exhaust mount which attaches the back box to the body. These are found on near enough all vehicles and are common exhaust parts. Surprised you haven't come across them? Can't imagine gaffa tape last that long, i'd advise trying some the of the rubber mounts.
After the exhaust came off it did not affect the safety of the vehicle or that to the surrounding public nor did it affect the performance so it, to that reasoning it was expected that from an MOT point of view it should be ok, clearly not, but i accept that and will sort.

given that some of the things it failed on this time it passed on last time would suggest they are probably border line issues which are subject to the testers personal opinion.

The landy is regularly checked before and after every outing and is continuously maintained and repaired as required.

I find it hard to agree to your definition of series brakes as 'very good' - It drum brakes with no servos were 'very good' why on earth did anyone ever think to use disc brakes? They are what they are. not great but they stop you.

I agree i probably should have looked at the steering before the test, it was very high up on the to-do list and would have been looked at if it had passed the MOT or not.

Bump said:

Whilst off roading it got caught and this ripped the rubber exhaust mount which attaches the back box to the body. These are found on near enough all vehicles and are common exhaust parts. Surprised you haven't come across them? Can't imagine gaffa tape last that long, i'd advise trying some the of the rubber mounts.
After the exhaust came off it did not affect the safety of the vehicle or that to the surrounding public nor did it affect the performance so it, to that reasoning it was expected that from an MOT point of view it should be ok, clearly not, but i accept that and will sort.

given that some of the things it failed on this time it passed on last time would suggest they are probably border line issues which are subject to the testers personal opinion.

The landy is regularly checked before and after every outing and is continuously maintained and repaired as required.

I find it hard to agree to your definition of series brakes as 'very good' - It drum brakes with no servos were 'very good' why on earth did anyone ever think to use disc brakes? They are what they are. not great but they stop you.

I agree i probably should have looked at the steering before the test, it was very high up on the to-do list and would have been looked at if it had passed the MOT or not.

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Interesting views and feel free to check my site if you think I need a lesson in landrover parts, been maintaining and building from the ground up for 20+ years ,
i assume a torn off exhaust box meant the pipe finished under the vehicle? unless the exhaust box was outside the line of the bodywork (doubt it) therefore an exhaust ending under the cab area will run the risk of CO entering the cockpit as you call it (is it a plane or a landy?) this is a major danger as CO is poisonous to mammals. So perhaps you need to google the effects of CO if you feel a ripped off exhaust 'did not affect the safety'

As for the brakes properly maintained I stand by the fact they are very good, and I have never had any issues with poor performance servo or non servo, yes they require more effort than servo assisted disc set ups but they are never bad, the comment they will never be good, its a landy suggests you may need help setting them correctly, drop me a line if you need a hand done it hundreds of times.

Disc brakes were not only a step forward in performance one of the main reasons is far less maintenance, whereas I check and adjust my drums monthly discs need very little from one MOT to the next, a cursory check normally does. Discs also do not require stripping and hosing out like a drum as Im sure you realise driving off road you probably strip and inspect far more regularly... odd then that they failed the MOT??

The landy is regularly checked before and after every outing and is continuously maintained and repaired as required.

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really.... so how did the steering get to the point it has? even you acknowledge its bad and wass high on the to do list.

would suggest they are probably border line issues which are subject to the testers personal opinion.

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Hence the reason I said dont try to 'threaten' the tester..... youd be amazed how many fails can 'pop up'
however its your life and potentially those you love, as long as you are happy driving a vehicle you know has 'borderline' issues with steering and brakes then who are we to offer an opinion even when honed over many years, however i sincerely hope I am nowhere near when your expert opinion of a borderline issue proves to be just that little bit the wrong side of the line

Guess I will just have to sit back content in the knowledge Ive never failed an MOT on a safety critical issue and certainly never managed a dangerous

right now back to google to find out more about these new-fangled exhaust rubber things

Steve

Bump said:

The landy is regularly checked before and after every outing and is continuously maintained and repaired as required.

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Sorry not deliberately picking holes but Had to add one more post...... love the above quote when I've just seen your post about the state of your prop on this board...... thats no 5 minute bit of damage

I rest my case LOL

Cheers Steve

Yup the prop got pretty bad :/ still, it was found and replaced before causing a dangerous situation

I should correct my statement on the exhaust, it was actually one of those straps which ripped the bolt out ( metal clamp going up to some strap to metal fixing to vehicle)
I had chosen this option to offer support to the back of the back box, I guess welding ol a hanger and using the (new fangled) rubber mount would be better - the one further up the exhaust pipe held fine.
That said I still need a better solution as the old solution used some flex which isn't given a great shelf life in exhausts.

I was aware of the steering issue and recently just missed out on a new stering box on ebay which would have replaced the current one. As I think I've mentioned, I haven't got my head round the whole steering system yet and am aware the swivle housing / cv joint part of the steering needs some maintenance.

I guess my problem is I check the vehicle over reguarly, then add the jobs to the to do list and work through that as I have the time and money. simple fixes can be done straight away but other things need time.

Still, I'm comfortable in the knowledge it is safe, never came even close to not stopping and has plenty of additional safety features

Thanks for the offer re: brakes, alas I feel it would be too much of a treck to take you up on said offer!

oops!

cant really back you up with these, bump!

you dont need hazards.
exhaust tailpipe should exit beyond bodywork, not under it.
can be rolling road tested, front imbalance up to 25%, no limit on rear.
braking effiency must be met.
tapley meter if road testing brakes, must pull up in a straight line.