Classic Most desirable engine conversion?

Hi, I've got a pretty clean, long term dry stored, "razor dash" RRC sitting in my workshop, minus engine and gearbox... It was originally a v8 3.9 EFI / 4sp auto. When I acquired the vehicle it had a non running 6.2 litre GMC diesel out of a humvee in it. I rebuilt the pump, got the engine running, overhauled the injectors with higher pressure nozzles and adjusted the pump and got it flying. Sadly my enthusiastic diesel tuning was more than the old 4hp24 could stand up to. So I made the decision to put a 300tdi into it, which then became the intention of putting a 300tdi auto set up into it, based around a 300tdi engine, mated to a P38 4.6 gearbox with the largest torque convertor, and reusing the hydraulic valve block from the RRC's box.

Sadly real life got in the road of the project and it's been literally high and dry marooned on my 4 post ramp for a few years now. Things like chasing the tin worm out of the discovery 300tdi, replacing the autobox on the hoppo, nearly losing my left eye, and trips offshore to various boats / oil rigs with work (which pays for these toys) got in the road of it. However, recently I've been thinking that it is a shame that such a nice vehicle is lying there gutted, and given the current price of fuel, even with a 300tdi the hippo is never going to be properly economical, and as me and my wife both daily drive more modern diesel autos, I suspect the RRC 300tdi conversion wouldn't feel that special. So I've decided if it can't be frugal, it might as well be fast, so I'm looking at various powertrain options for it.

I've got a reasonable budget, that must be spread across engine, bellhousing adapter, gearbox, transfer box adapter, any axle upgrades required to survive the new powertrain, and the electronics to control it all. But given that i've pieced together a few options that would just about squeek in under budget, or at least a man-maths budget

What i'd like to get is themost desireable end vehicle out of the project, so that if or when I sell the RRC, I've built it in the most desireable manner and would get the most money for the vehicle. I've listed these options in the poll below and hich engine & gearbox, and would love to hear what you think would make the most desireable / attractive / sellable vehicle?

Jayridium said:

Hi, I've got a pretty clean, long term dry stored, "razor dash" RRC sitting in my workshop, minus engine and gearbox... It was originally a v8 3.9 EFI / 4sp auto. When I acquired the vehicle it had a non running 6.2 litre GMC diesel out of a humvee in it. I rebuilt the pump, got the engine running, overhauled the injectors with higher pressure nozzles and adjusted the pump and got it flying. Sadly my enthusiastic diesel tuning was more than the old 4hp24 could stand up to. So I made the decision to put a 300tdi into it, which then became the intention of putting a 300tdi auto set up into it, based around a 300tdi engine, mated to a P38 4.6 gearbox with the largest torque convertor, and reusing the hydraulic valve block from the RRC's box.

Sadly real life got in the road of the project and it's been literally high and dry marooned on my 4 post ramp for a few years now. Things like chasing the tin worm out of the discovery 300tdi, replacing the autobox on the hoppo, nearly losing my left eye, and trips offshore to various boats / oil rigs with work (which pays for these toys) got in the road of it. However, recently I've been thinking that it is a shame that such a nice vehicle is lying there gutted, and given the current price of fuel, even with a 300tdi the hippo is never going to be properly economical, and as me and my wife both daily drive more modern diesel autos, I suspect the RRC 300tdi conversion wouldn't feel that special. So I've decided if it can't be frugal, it might as well be fast, so I'm looking at various powertrain options for it.

I've got a reasonable budget, that must be spread across engine, bellhousing adapter, gearbox, transfer box adapter, any axle upgrades required to survive the new powertrain, and the electronics to control it all. But given that i've pieced together a few options that would just about squeek in under budget, or at least a man-maths budget

What i'd like to get is themost desireable end vehicle out of the project, so that if or when I sell the RRC, I've built it in the most desireable manner and would get the most money for the vehicle. I've listed these options in the poll below and hich engine & gearbox, and would love to hear what you think would make the most desireable / attractive / sellable vehicle?

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The 300tdi would be my choice.

Go back to the RV8 or make it stroked a bit.

Or the sbc route as overfinch did.

J

I upgraded from 300tdi to 256T honestly Is an improvement I regret nothing. We are better off Keith

AJV8 for me. There’s about 30 versions of this engine ranging from 350-600hp as standard. Not all are supercharged can choose what best suits your transmission and pull them out of all sorts from D4s or RRS to XKRs

Depends if you actually want a RRC or a guided missile.
Personally speaking if I wanted that much poke I'd look elsewhere for something more capable of handling it.

VAGINA 5.0L V10 TDI

Mercedes sl500 v8 engine from 1994. Shuts down 4 cyls on at high speed and can run on Ethanol .

Weird thread. If you want a modded vehicle. Build for what you want. If your intent is selling and value. Then make it bog standard to what it originally was. Probably best to decide up front what your intentions are.

No idea what your actual budget is. But some of those options look very expensive to just buy the bits. Let alone get it fitted, running and upgrading all the bits that can’t handle the power. Which would mean you’d always be in negative value after selling.

I would say your best, safest and most economical option is keeping it standard with a built rover v8 and transmission.
With the proper remedial work done with top hat liners and a proper cam and lifters, they are just about as bulletproof as the best of them.
Plus there are lots of proven aftermarket engine controllers (ECU) and ignition systems that can make it run better than when it left Solihull.
Add in the original ZF 4HP22 that's been given a new lease on life, and the combo would most likely outlive either the body of the car, you or both.
The thing about doing these swaps, especially the ones that involve reworking electronics to adapt the whole engine, transmission, monitoring and control setup to your vehicle is that, you cannot reach out for advice on forums such as these for help when things go wrong, primarily because only you or whoever it is that gets the wiring done knows what was done to get it going.
Therefore when you or they have tried everything within the scope of the work you did and still cannot get it going or running right, best if everyone keeps all the matches in the house away from you.

Trouble with automotive CAN connections can make you wish cars had not progressed beyond carburetors and chokes.

My favorite option is missing: The Isuzu 3.5 L turbo diesel the Aussies put into their Perenties. With the added benefit that all mechanics in the developing world know it, and parts are easily available. In Europe, well, the engine is hard to come by.

300bhp/ton said:

Weird thread. If you want a modded vehicle. Build for what you want. If your intent is selling and value. Then make it bog standard to what it originally was. Probably best to decide up front what your intentions are.

No idea what your actual budget is. But some of those options look very expensive to just buy the bits. Let alone get it fitted, running and upgrading all the bits that can’t handle the power. Which would mean you’d always be in negative value after selling.

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I don't think it's a weird thread, I'm starting with a clean RRC that doesn't have an engine or gearbox, and only about 1/4 of the original 4cux wiring still in the vehicle, it is literally a blank canvas, no matter what I put in there I'd be starting from scratch. Initially I was going to go 300tdi, but currently having 3 diesels with tax disks on them, I want something different in the collection, so that means something spicy is going into the range rover. As for budget, initially I was looking at trying to do it all for well under ten grand, as I thought the RRC would only be worth nine to ten grand, but seeing what restored / restomodded RRC's go for, there's room for a bigger spend, so I've upped the budget to five figures for the powertrain alone, which has allowed me to buy something very very tasty for it.

ifloochies said:

I would say your best, safest and most economical option is keeping it standard with a built rover v8 and transmission.
With the proper remedial work done with top hat liners and a proper cam and lifters, they are just about as bulletproof as the best of them.
Plus there are lots of proven aftermarket engine controllers (ECU) and ignition systems that can make it run better than when it left Solihull.
Add in the original ZF 4HP22 that's been given a new lease on life, and the combo would most likely outlive either the body of the car, you or both.
The thing about doing these swaps, especially the ones that involve reworking electronics to adapt the whole engine, transmission, monitoring and control setup to your vehicle is that, you cannot reach out for advice on forums such as these for help when things go wrong, primarily because only you or whoever it is that gets the wiring done knows what was done to get it going.
Therefore when you or they have tried everything within the scope of the work you did and still cannot get it going or running right, best if everyone keeps all the matches in the house away from you.
Trouble with automotive CAN connections can make you wish cars had not progressed beyond carburetors and chokes.

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I can pick up a 6.0 litre 335bhp LS engine for less money than I'd be spending going down the rover route by the time I bought the donor engine. I also happen to have in stock chevy SBC to land rover engine mounts & transmission adapter, although those are currently bolted to the 6.2 diesel engine I had in there. Were I to go rover, and get it built, it'd cost more than going LS, and I were to spend the same on the LS powertrain as a fully build rover V* & zh4hp22/24 hybrid with 4.6 TC etc would cost, at the very least I'd be north of 400bhp, with a modern six speed lock up torque converter autobox and much better MPG than I'd get from the built ~320bhp four speed non lock up slushbox. I'm not meaning to be a bell end and take a dump on the rover engine, I did consider it, but the bang for buck simply isn't there, look at RPi engineering's own dynos for their 5.2 rover v8:



I work as a spanner monkey in offshore oil and gas, I'm also a computer nerd, and I've got a workshop that would leave mike brewar and ed china drooling with both a two post & a four post ramp, mig, tig, stick, plasma, oxy acetylene, TCT chop saw, and that's just the welding kit, imagine what the hand tools are like. So it is my intention to be doing the work myself, so the cost of garage labour undertaking the work is not a real cost, however given my day rate in "my real job", it makes sense for me to spend some money on things like premade transmission adapters rather than spend days butchering billets. I am also able to do CAD, so I am able to design brackets / mounts etc and have them machined. WRT the wiring, if I can build this as my PC:

I'm reasonably confident that I'd be able to work with a wiring diagram from the donor car, and worst case scenario, I could go with aftermarket standalone EMS & TC systems

Mark Piercy said:

Mercedes sl500 v8 engine from 1994. Shuts down 4 cyls on at high speed and can run on Ethanol .

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You'll be pleased to hear that the powertrain that I've recently bought, against the advice of this thread, features cylinder deactivation, and has more than the 5 litres of displacement the SL500 engine.

So what did you actually get? cant make it out from above.

Sounds like this will be a fun build fred coming.

J

marjon said:

So what did you actually get? cant make it out from above.

Sounds like this will be a fun build fred coming.

J

Click to expand...

I won't be doing a build thread.

nvm

Jayridium said:

View attachment 266308

I won't be doing a build thread.

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Why not?
At least an after build fred then.

J

Jayridium said:

nvm

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To late I saw it.
Looks good starting point.

J

200TDI is my vote. Good fuel economy (much better than the V8, and better than the 300TDI). Not much to go wrong, especially very little in the way of superfluous electircal crap. I daily drive my 200TDI RRC and it's a dream.

Jayridium said:

Hi, I've got a pretty clean, long term dry stored, "razor dash" RRC sitting in my workshop, minus engine and gearbox... It was originally a v8 3.9 EFI / 4sp auto. When I acquired the vehicle it had a non running 6.2 litre GMC diesel out of a humvee in it. I rebuilt the pump, got the engine running, overhauled the injectors with higher pressure nozzles and adjusted the pump and got it flying. Sadly my enthusiastic diesel tuning was more than the old 4hp24 could stand up to. So I made the decision to put a 300tdi into it, which then became the intention of putting a 300tdi auto set up into it, based around a 300tdi engine, mated to a P38 4.6 gearbox with the largest torque convertor, and reusing the hydraulic valve block from the RRC's box.

Sadly real life got in the road of the project and it's been literally high and dry marooned on my 4 post ramp for a few years now. Things like chasing the tin worm out of the discovery 300tdi, replacing the autobox on the hoppo, nearly losing my left eye, and trips offshore to various boats / oil rigs with work (which pays for these toys) got in the road of it. However, recently I've been thinking that it is a shame that such a nice vehicle is lying there gutted, and given the current price of fuel, even with a 300tdi the hippo is never going to be properly economical, and as me and my wife both daily drive more modern diesel autos, I suspect the RRC 300tdi conversion wouldn't feel that special. So I've decided if it can't be frugal, it might as well be fast, so I'm looking at various powertrain options for it.

I've got a reasonable budget, that must be spread across engine, bellhousing adapter, gearbox, transfer box adapter, any axle upgrades required to survive the new powertrain, and the electronics to control it all. But given that i've pieced together a few options that would just about squeek in under budget, or at least a man-maths budget

What i'd like to get is themost desireable end vehicle out of the project, so that if or when I sell the RRC, I've built it in the most desireable manner and would get the most money for the vehicle. I've listed these options in the poll below and hich engine & gearbox, and would love to hear what you think would make the most desireable / attractive / sellable vehicle?

Click to expand...

I'm with RRDT, the Jag AJV8 is a sublime motor and hassle free. You want something refined for that money, not a tractor. Is the Classic on air? They didn't like corners at the best of times and something with that much poke really needs the suspension and brakes looking at. Maybe look at what Overfinch did to it?

I agree the jagv8 is an awesome engine, used to run an XJR a few years ago, so I was really very tempted by one. The problem I had is their electronics require virtually an entire vehicle wiring transplant, and the ZF autobox they use have the elevtronics built into the valveblock, so to do a transplant with one the least painful option is a standalone TCM with aspecial breakout board that you replace the ecu on the valveblock with, then the wiring tail to the plug on the transmission casing becomes the port for the TCM to connect to. It's quite a palava and chews up about two grand. The otherway of going jag would have been to use the jag engine with a defender tdci manual transmission, but those make strong money on eBay, so while the jag engines are relatively inexpensive, integrating them into the drive train was going to eat heavy gold.

Jayridium said:

I agree the jagv8 is an awesome engine, used to run an XJR a few years ago, so I was really very tempted by one. The problem I had is their electronics require virtually an entire vehicle wiring transplant, and the ZF autobox they use have the elevtronics built into the valveblock, so to do a transplant with one the least painful option is a standalone TCM with aspecial breakout board that you replace the ecu on the valveblock with, then the wiring tail to the plug on the transmission casing becomes the port for the TCM to connect to. It's quite a palava and chews up about two grand. The otherway of going jag would have been to use the jag engine with a defender tdci manual transmission, but those make strong money on eBay, so while the jag engines are relatively inexpensive, integrating them into the drive train was going to eat heavy gold.

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Loads of old S-types around that could be used as a donor. There's a Jag specialist breaker in Middlesex somewhere but I cannot recall their name.