Loads of slack in power train - diffs?

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julianf

julianf

Well-Known Member
Posts
2,339
Location
Devon, UK
There's a good amount of slack in my 300 110s transmission.

Aside from all other components, if the hand brake is on (which locks the properly fine - ie it's not a hand brake issue) the vehicle can still roll more than id like to to before the slack is taken up.


The handbrake isolates this to everything rearwards of the handbrake.

So far all I've done is the drive flanges, which are the cheapest bit in the "parts cannon" which I fired at it without really thinking but they made, basically, zero difference.

Obviously if the half shaft splines were worn at the wheel end then new flanges would make no difference, but the play on mine seems in line with videos that I see from other people, so I don't reckon it's them.

Could be the other end of the shafts, but you would assume they would ware fairly evenly at either end, so my money isn't on that either.


Prop uj play doesn't seem vast. Obviously all these things are cumulative, but I don't think replacing them will make a load of difference.



So then it's the diff. Which is where my suspicion is currently.


I'll admit, I've not gone on a massive YouTube burn yet -

I'm wondering how much in the Salisbury diff is "adjustable" (ie shim changes etc) without specialist tools or if it's a "take it to someone who deals with these things" job?

Thank you.
 
That's going to be interesting. You've got to bend the casing of a Salisbury diff to get the mechanism out. There's a specialist tool that spreads them but it's probably not worth buying one if it's just for occasional use. Alternatively, it's possible by squeezing the diff housing from top to bottom, thus making the opening wider. People do this with home made devices made of metal bars and screwed rod, but I don't have a picture to hand. You've got to get the diff centre out in order to adjust the position of the pinion. It's possible to do at home, but it's a "project" rather than something one can knock off quickly like a wheel bearing change.

It doesn't do any harm to take the cover off and have a look. Are the teeth looking fairly fresh or are they 'stepped' where they press against each other, or do they resemble a circular saw? If they're not too terrible, and the mechanism isn't too noisy, I'd be inclined to leave it a bit longer until the faults are more noticeable so as to merit a rebuild.
 
Did you check the A frame bushes & balljoint? How much play is there in the diff when rotating it? I think up to 45 degrees is "normal"
 
julianf said:
Could be the other end of the shafts, but you would assume they would ware fairly evenly at either end, so my money isn't on that either.


Prop uj play doesn't seem vast. Obviously all these things are cumulative, but I don't think replacing them will make a load of difference.
Click to expand...

For me play in a UJ its U.S.

Have a looked at the half shafts first to check for wear.

As you state many cumulative wear so check the easy stuff first.

Front and back.

J
 
Kev12 said:
Did you check the A frame bushes & balljoint? How much play is there in the diff when rotating it? I think up to 45 degrees is "normal"
Click to expand...

I did the a frame ball for the mot last month, and I've not actually "tested" this area further. I've not driven it much since the mot, and have not noticed a difference in power trail slack on take up, but it's something I've largely adjusted my driving style to anyway, so I'd have to actually think about it to tell.

I only did the ball joint and not the bushes at the other end of the frame. I'm due to swap the chassis when I get a chance (have had a new one sitting there for the past 2 mot cycles now!) so I've been slightly reluctant to do all the bushes as I figure I'll do them all together later (and, yes, I've got them all in preparation too!)

Good calm though - I'll pay it some attention next time I'm out and see if doing the ball has made much of a difference. I don't have high hopes but I'll see.

Thank you.
 
marjon said:
For me play in a UJ its U.S.

Have a looked at the half shafts first to check for wear.

As you state many cumulative wear so check the easy stuff first.

Front and back.

J
Click to expand...

Didn't quite get the first line? Uj?

I guess I can drag out the half shaft and eyeball the diff end, but, unless it's proper stuffed, I probably won't be able to "see" the ware?
 
To see how much play in center diff and remove front shaft at gearbox end [chock vehicle] With hand brake on rotate flange by hand back and fore and see how much it turns. Now engage diff lock and see how much difference in rotation amount.
 
Land rovers with a handbrake on the drum for the rear prop will always move about no matter what you do.
Even when you replace all the drivetrain it will still do it.
When parking on a hill apply the handbrake with the foot brake pressed the allow the foot brake gently off to load up the transmission brake so it doesn't smash it's self up.
Standard knowledge for all land rover owners.
Hopefully you're MOT tester didn't test the hand brake on the roller as that's a no no.
 
Polski Boschski said:
Hopefully you're MOT tester didn't test the hand brake on the roller as that's a no no.
Click to expand...
The thread has nothing to do with an MOT.
But please enlighten us what could happen then? You are always vague in your posts like someone using a 6” brush on a 1” post.

Or are we getting Bobbed again? Don’t like your posts.:vb-wave:

J
 
There is a load of rubbish talked about the land rover hand brake, Yes being a transmission unit there will still be some movement at the wheels, yes you should not yank it on while on the move but that is the same for most hand brakes. When you stop on a hill your foot brake should be on anyway, never heard or seen a hand brake "smash up" series or later models.
My Ninety has had its handbrake tested on the MOT roller the last 30 years no issues.
It is fine if tester knows his stuff and just eases the hand brake up to see there is resistance on the gauge. And like normal driving does not yank it on.
 
Update -

A friend was over with his 110 300tdi today. We jacked up one rear wheel of mine and measured (by eye) the rotational play and then did the same to his, and compared.

Mine was at least double to 3x what his was.

There was no visible movement on the prop at all, which would mean that all the slack is coming from the half shafts, flanges, or diff.

I've bought some new half shafts and more flanges (I did them a while back but they seem to stick on my alloys so I'm fine with changing them again) but I don't have high hopes.

Diffs are expensive but not as fearful as I thought. An Ashcroft LSD is 450 + vat.

However... That's just the diff, right? I assume the crown also wears, and that wouldn't be replaced?


I have a known good 300disco front axel form when the time comes to look there. The casing is different but I think all the internals are the same as the 300 defender.


I'll see what the new half shafts do, but I really don't think it's going to be them...
 
With the end cap off the flange you will see if there is play there.
Is the Ashcroft LSD not just the center that has to be fitted into your diff?
 
Yes, Ashcroft just gives you a diff centre. If you want a new ring gear and pinion you've got to order these separately. Just my own experience, but the ring gears and pinions seem to last pretty well. The last time I had my diffs out they still looked as good as new - no visual signs of wear. Again, just my own experience, but rotational slack seems to come from places where there are splines.
 
tottot said:
With the end cap off the flange you will see if there is play there.
Is the Ashcroft LSD not just the center that has to be fitted into your diff?
Click to expand...

So, a while back, when i went for mot, the tester (who is into landrovers) pointed out the rotational play, and suggested new flanges.

I did them, with little effect, and then looked at videos of the movement between the flange and the shaft (ie how the splines worked together) and mine were no worse than anyone elses.


...but the flanges seem to mess with my alloys anyway, so i figured i would change them regarless, and, at the same time, ive bought new half shafts, as, i guess, it could be the other end thats chewed up, and theyre easy enough to do, even though i think its probably the diff.


The 110 was bought as "spares or repairs" years ago, and my friend once commented "if you bought that for spares, rather than repairs, you would be right dissapointed" - as, pretty much all of it was stuffed. In that context, the diff is probably stuffed, as its one of the original parts.

(transfer box has been changed already)

So, yeah, im clutching at straws with the half shafts. But, again, theyre easy, and might, i guess, work.

If i was clever id have taken them out and looked at the other end, but im not, so i just bought new ones.
 
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