Lithium battery vs lead acid for starters ;)

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cborrman

Active Member
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Location
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So, my 300tdi came with a 68ah toyota battery - nice... and was as low as 12.4 volts on stationary and 13.4 while engine on so clearly needed a new one.

Lot’s of great info here on batteries, so won’t go into the fact that I had shortlisted optima, odyysey, numax and was set on an odyysey 1500 or 1750...

However - in this day and age I was left scratching my head as to why I was going to buy 30kg of lead that was probably mined in Africa by children, shipped to Canada to refine, then shipped back which will inevitably fail, along with all its corrosive acid and glass fibre relic crap in it... when lithium is the future and has been for last 10 years of huge innovation vs. a decades-old lump of poison and acid that drops volts off a cliff and can only drain 50-70% max...

Then there is the fact that lead acid lumps give of gasses, which in a normal car with internal battery is sealed to the cabin and vented outside, with the defender... well it’s gonna end up in the cabin isn’t it!?!?

So, having looked at various options from stupid cost to home-made (not what you want under a seat) I saw a great british company making a 20ah with 630cca and a 30ah with 800cca both lifepo4 (lithium iron phosphate - safe as houses).

They did not have the 30ah in stock, so thought I would try the 20ah as I may end up installing them in a two battery formation, putting the 20ah in another car, etc.

It arrived with 13.1v (there is a natty button on top) though the volt meter in my £5 dual usb thingy said 12.9...

As I have found often with defenders, some monkey had been at it before me with a wrench and over-tightened connector, so the positive connector had been stretched and needed a shim... made one with copper tube (see pic).

In short, she now starts in about 1 second vs 2-3s before, its cheaper than the cheapest odyysey I could find, weighs 2kg, is tiny and now gives me the whole battery bay for storage and will last easily 3 times longer and works from like -50°C to +50°C whereas lead acid does not like really the cold or even warm (anything above about 30°C, which given she spends a lit if time Summer in southern europe is not great either).

There; cat amount pidgeons put ;)

If you want to get more space, less toxic, less weight, much bigger operating temp range, the ability to use nealy 100% vs only 50% of its juice, all at a connstant voltage vs. terrible drop-off, or just be in this century / different there is even a version of the 20ah with an ali braket so you can bolt to front next to alarm or whatever is in the battery box http://www.powerlite-units.com/products/accessories/?page=2
 

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http://www.powerlite-units.com/products/ps-20/

and then used these connectors with my own m6 4cm long bolts

Pair of battery posts with hex socket head M8 bolts designed for batteries with M8 bolt terminals: Amazon product

as you can put in any orientation I put the bolts in sideways so I can lay the battery flat and more stable. will have to work out how to stick down but at 2kg could even use velcro!
 
Nice,

But I think to use a winch and lights , I will continue with the idea to buy the Halfords AGM115 at £112.

Thanks
yep, to get the same power you would need probably two 30 together (£480) however bear in mind there is no drop off in power during this output - I know nothing of winches so no idea if this is important or not for winches??? if this is important you maybe surprised at the ps-30 as I can imagine the amount of constant amps
delivered is important and lithium is definitely better at that if so. I do know roaming the outback on youtube has winches and uses 50ah lithium. If he has power to spare winching with 50ah you have your answer!
 
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yep, to get the same power you would need probably two 30 together (£480) however bear in mind there is no drop off in power during this output - I know nothing of winches so no idea if this is important or not for winches??? if this is important you maybe surprised at the ps-30 as I can imagine the amount of constant amps
delivered is important and lithium is definitely better at that if so. I do know roaming the outback on youtube has winches and uses 50ah lithium. If he has power to spare winching with 50ah you have your answer!

That is a bit beyond my price range as I can the get that one I mentioned for 1/4 the price, maybe if the prices come down, if ever it would be on my wishlist. Doyou have a link for the outback dude and him mentoining hiis battery?

Cheers
 
That is a bit beyond my price range as I can the get that one I mentioned for 1/4 the price, maybe if the prices come down, if ever it would be on my wishlist. Doyou have a link for the outback dude and him mentoining hiis battery?

Cheers
here you go: warning... very strong aussie accent alert
 
yep, think if you need the ah and they are not sensitive to drop then lithium not probably way forward for you yet
 
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How much was it ? Not dismissing your argument , but if it's cheaper, lighter and better, why are all car companies still putting lead acid batteries in new cars?

..That's what had me scratching my head as well, I think the only logical reason can be the extra AH means you can leave it longer with voltage drain and still be startable? I would rather have a lifepo4 and a lithium jump starter / usb charger I can charge in the house and/or a solar trickle charger on roof???

That they are cheap and just not at all innovative was another I read in a forum or two on my researching this... to the fact that the only companies less innovative than car companies is car company parts suppliers... and they still push lumps of poison and acid that give off gasses.

This is also the industry has given us Dieselgate and managed to flog I don't know how many generations of Prius to the gullible as "environmental", loaded to the hilt with lead from Africa refined in Canada, Built in Japan and been half way round the world before even started on energy to build ...while the defender with very high double digit percentages of them still on the road, all built with british pig iron and alloy in Birmingham and can be fixed with a spanner, welder and hammer, 70 years on seen as less environmentally friendly. While the world is happy "recycling" single use Nespresso capsules as long as they did not arrive in a 5p plastic bag, this must be one of the few relics that has not been jumped on yet by the press???

Wow I am grumpy today :)
 
..That's what had me scratching my head as well, I think the only logical reason can be the extra AH means you can leave it longer with voltage drain and still be startable? I would rather have a lifepo4 and a lithium jump starter / usb charger I can charge in the house and/or a solar trickle charger on roof???

That they are cheap and just not at all innovative was another I read in a forum or two on my researching this... to the fact that the only companies less innovative than car companies is car company parts suppliers... and they still push lumps of poison and acid that give off gasses.

This is also the industry has given us Dieselgate and managed to flog I don't know how many generations of Prius to the gullible as "environmental", loaded to the hilt with lead from Africa refined in Canada, Built in Japan and been half way round the world before even started on energy to build ...while the defender with very high double digit percentages of them still on the road, all built with british pig iron and alloy in Birmingham and can be fixed with a spanner, welder and hammer, 70 years on seen as less environmentally friendly. While the world is happy "recycling" single use Nespresso capsules as long as they did not arrive in a 5p plastic bag, this must be one of the few relics that has not been jumped on yet by the press???

Wow I am grumpy today :)

I thought AGM did not give off gases as they were sealed.

Cheers
 
Me too, but I could not get any body to say I could seal up the battery box :( with AGM... so go figure, especially if exposed to Spanish summer sun heat (+30C)

One thing I do know is that my battery box is not sealed anyway, always gets mud and water in it when I go playing in the deep stuff.

Cheers
 
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