leaking/smoking defender 200tdi

Turboman · Jun 15, 2016

Maxlondon said:
Ok, so would it be same principle ? would the water come out first ? I just went to the petrol station and filled a 10L can to fill it up today

Better to drain it all out, an then refill the tank with clean diesel.
And when it is sorted out, try and keep the tank as full as possible. The water in the fuel comes from condensation in a part empty tank. Less airspace, less water!
If you run the tank low, there is a good chance you will draw in water and dirt, if you wear out your injector pump a good recon will cost you at least £500.

julianf · Jun 15, 2016

Run it a while now that you've drained the water before worrying a out the next thing - it may be OK now.

Check the filter for water after a few trips too - see if its sucked more in.

Maxlondon · Jun 15, 2016

Turboman said:
Better to drain it all out, an then refill the tank with clean diesel.
And when it is sorted out, try and keep the tank as full as possible. The water in the fuel comes from condensation in a part empty tank. Less airspace, less water!
If you run the tank low, there is a good chance you will draw in water and dirt, if you wear out your injector pump a good recon will cost you at least £500.

Ok , will do that tomorrow, I should have done it before filling it up ...
Good to know , I will try to keep it up.
Is there a way to check the injector pump ?
Is injector pump and fuel pump the same thing ?
Thanks guys for still helping so much , really

Maxlondon · Jun 15, 2016

julianf said:
Run it a while now that you've drained the water before worrying a out the next thing - it may be OK now.

Check the filter for water after a few trips too - see if its sucked more in.

I drained only from the fuel filter , I tbought of that too and pressed the pedal a bit , but to be honest it smoked SO much I had to stop, my entire street was full of smoke and couldn't see anything !

Maxlondon · Jun 15, 2016

By the way , is that the oil drain plug ? Looks like it from the manual ?
If yes , impossible to release it , I tried with a breaker bar and an impact driver , didn't move

Turboman · Jun 15, 2016

Maxlondon said:
By the way , is that the oil drain plug ? Looks like it from the manual ?
If yes , impossible to release it , I tried with a breaker bar and an impact driver , didn't move

Well, one way or another, it has to come out, Big stilsons, or a quality socket and a big bar will sometimes shift. If not you will have to destroy it out with a drill and sharp chisel.

Flossie · Jun 15, 2016

Maxlondon said:
Ok , will do that tomorrow, I should have done it before filling it up ...
Good to know , I will try to keep it up.
Is there a way to check the injector pump ?
Is injector pump and fuel pump the same thing ?
Thanks guys for still helping so much , really

You have two pumps.
The lift pump is the small one fitted to the drivers side of the block and has the priming lever on it. It's job is to suck fuel from the tank on one of the pipes and pump it up to the filter on the other pipe.
The other is called the fuel injector pump (sometimes shown as FIP) this is the one with the 4 steel pipes on the rear going to the injectors.

Maxlondon · Jun 15, 2016

Turboman said:
Well, one way or another, it has to come out, Big stilsons, or a quality socket and a big bar will sometimes shift. If not you will have to destroy it out with a drill and sharp chisel.

Ok , I was just hoping I was aiming at the wrong one

Maxlondon · Jun 15, 2016

Flossie said:
You have two pumps.
The lift pump is the small one fitted to the drivers side of the block and has the priming lever on it. It's job is to suck fuel from the tank on one of the pipes and pump it up to the filter on the other pipe.
The other is called the fuel injector pump (sometimes shown as FIP) this is the one with the 4 steel pipes on the rear going to the injectors.

Great , thanks for the info , so the one that can get damaged by the water would be the fuel injector pump ?

Flossie · Jun 15, 2016

julianf · Jun 16, 2016

Ive just skim read this again.

First - great perseverance - admired!

Second - on to the issue :

The smoke out the back - what does it smell of? Does it smell of burning tyres (oil)?
If its water coming out as steam, it shouldn't smell too much, but if its burning oil, it will smell foul.
Those drips i saw on a photo, under the exhaust pipe - they were water, or oil? And theyre still happening, or not, after youve done the head?

As i say, i only skimmed the thread, but there's talk of stem seals, and turbos, so that's oil, but then talk about the head, so that's water or oil...
And then water in the fuel filter?

Anyhow, if you can 100% confirm what the exhaust smells of, then i (we) can get a much better idea of what it is that's coming out, and then where its comming from.

Im as guilty as others - making suggestions, but, without getting to the root, then acting on all the suggestions just gets you running around fixing things that dont need fixing!

Turboman · Jun 16, 2016

julianf said:
Ive just skim read this again.

First - great perseverance - admired!

Second - on to the issue :

The smoke out the back - what does it smell of? Does it smell of burning tyres (oil)?
If its water coming out as steam, it shouldn't smell too much, but if its burning oil, it will smell foul.
Those drips i saw on a photo, under the exhaust pipe - they were water, or oil? And theyre still happening, or not, after youve done the head?

As i say, i only skimmed the thread, but there's talk of stem seals, and turbos, so that's oil, but then talk about the head, so that's water or oil...
And then water in the fuel filter?

Anyhow, if you can 100% confirm what the exhaust smells of, then i (we) can get a much better idea of what it is that's coming out, and then where its comming from.

Im as guilty as others - making suggestions, but, without getting to the root, then acting on all the suggestions just gets you running around fixing things that dont need fixing!

Water running down the exhaust was from a warped head, as I originally suggested. He has now fixed it.
The water in his fuel is a separate issue. Just trying to get him to service it up a bit to avoid further issues.

julianf · Jun 16, 2016

...but then he said just now -

to be honest it smoked SO much I had to stop, my entire street was full of smoke and couldn't see anything

so i figure he still has issues beyond 'service' items?

Maxlondon · Jun 16, 2016

julianf said:
Ive just skim read this again.

First - great perseverance - admired!

Second - on to the issue :

The smoke out the back - what does it smell of? Does it smell of burning tyres (oil)?
If its water coming out as steam, it shouldn't smell too much, but if its burning oil, it will smell foul.
Those drips i saw on a photo, under the exhaust pipe - they were water, or oil? And theyre still happening, or not, after youve done the head?

As i say, i only skimmed the thread, but there's talk of stem seals, and turbos, so that's oil, but then talk about the head, so that's water or oil...
And then water in the fuel filter?

Anyhow, if you can 100% confirm what the exhaust smells of, then i (we) can get a much better idea of what it is that's coming out, and then where its comming from.

Im as guilty as others - making suggestions, but, without getting to the root, then acting on all the suggestions just gets you running around fixing things that dont need fixing!

Hi Julian, thanks for your help !

The smoke I cannot figure out what it smells like :/ I stuck my nose under the exhaust and tried really hard but I really don't know , it smells but like what, I don't know , will ask someone that knows a bit about engine to help me out .

The drip was definetly water and it is now gone but that is all the difference the head gasket made ( I guess it is still a good sign )

Yes, yesterday , messing around with the it I undone the fuel filter bottom screw and a lot of water came down .

To be honest you guys have been great and so far the only real money I have spent was to bring it to the garage for the guy to tell me it was the head gasket ( which wasn't ) and to test the head and skim it .
Anyway I am up to any suggestions !

The thing that concern me is that when I slacken the injectors ( tried again after the gasket done ) 2 cylinders, always the same ones, does not change anything on the pitch of the engine and the 2 others almost make it stall. Which makes me beleive that it is running on only 2 cylinders, I don't know much at all but I have a strong and sad feeling that it would be a cracked block that I didn't see or piston ring .

Anyway like Flossie said , I really need to find myself another compression tester to get a better idea.

Flossie · Jun 16, 2016

julianf said:
...but then he said just now -

so i figure he still has issues beyond 'service' items?

We are awaiting compression tests, this was attempted before the head was removed but he bust the tester after only number 1 was checked.
The head got removed any ways so we don't know if it's a bent rod or bust rings or what at this point.
I like to test not guess and then move on to cheap options.
Most of the advice on this thread is sound but not always in the correct order if you have little money like me.
The OP inexperience is complicating matters further but this forums ethos will get to the bottom of it for sure.
I sometimes wish the truck was on my yard , 1/2 a day would see compression check, timing check, turbo check , injectors checked before going any further. These are all free things for me and at a reasonable cost to others if you're lucky and know a friendly garage.

Maxlondon · Jun 16, 2016

Flossie said:
We are awaiting compression tests, this was attempted before the head was removed but he bust the tester after only number 1 was checked.
The head got removed any ways so we don't know if it's a bent rod or bust rings or what at this point.
I like to test not guess and then move on to cheap options.
Most of the advice on this thread is sound but not always in the correct order if you have little money like me.
The OP inexperience is complicating matters further but this forums ethos will get to the bottom of it for sure.
I sometimes wish the truck was on my yard , 1/2 a day would see compression check, timing check, turbo check , injectors checked before going any further. These are all free things for me and at a reasonable cost to others if you're lucky and know a friendly garage.

By the way , talking about timing check , I ordered all the tools and read tutorial , it doesn't look overcomplicated to just check it , so will give it a go this week end if all the tools arrive .
For the compression , I think I'll just give a call the the w**ker at the garage and ask him to borrow his tester for an hour , he owe me this at least , I changed a head gasket for no reason because of him !

SpringDon · Jun 16, 2016

Just to throw more confusion into the pot...

I would concentrate on the two injectors that don't appear to work. You've had the injectors tested so that leaves either the pump or low compression.
Don't know whether you can do this on a 200 but can you leave an injector out of the head and observe the spray. (From a safe distance). Others could say whether this is possible but if so, it could eliminate the pump.

Flossie · Jun 16, 2016

Not really, you may have 2,3or 4 different problems . IF it was water going down the exhaust and that has now stopped then a head gasket needed doing.
Your symptoms point to a few possible faults , including the head gasket, a compression test will narrow things down abit.
Does the smoke sting your eyes?
That points to fuel which would confirm that the 2 cylinders (which don't alter engine tone) are not burning the fuel but sending it neat down the exhaust. The fuel not burning is either an injector problem (they have been tested,all ok) or a compression problem (not tested so far)
Edit to say- this post is for the OP not in reply to Springdon.

Flossie · Jun 16, 2016

SpringDon said:
Just to throw more confusion into the pot...

I would concentrate on the two injectors that don't appear to work. You've had the injectors tested so that leaves either the pump or low compression.
Don't know whether you can do this on a 200 but can you leave an injector out of the head and observe the spray. (From a safe distance). Others could say whether this is possible but if so, it could eliminate the pump.

You can yes but I'm not keen on the OP doing that at this stage due to his inexperience and the high risk of injury to himself.

Maxlondon · Jun 16, 2016

SpringDon said:
Just to throw more confusion into the pot...

I would concentrate on the two injectors that don't appear to work. You've had the injectors tested so that leaves either the pump or low compression.
Don't know whether you can do this on a 200 but can you leave an injector out of the head and observe the spray. (From a safe distance). Others could say whether this is possible but if so, it could eliminate the pump.

I don't know with them out but when I slacken them , there is a good amount of fuel spraying around

leaking/smoking defender 200tdi

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