JATCO Automatic Gearbox

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Speak of the devil, look what i found, resistance reading for the Jatco auto box fluid temp sensor, so no need for the Testbook software, I reckon around 1.5 ohm would be about the right temp.
Also other useful info in this PDF regarding the jatco box:clap2:
 
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jedi said:
Speak of the devil, look what i http://www.transtec.com/tech_insert/94231.pdf, resistance reading for the Jatco auto box fluid temp sensor, so no need for the Testbook software, I reckon around 1.5 ohm would be about the right temp.
Click to expand...
jedi said:
Also other useful info in this PDF regarding the jatco box :clap2:
Click to expand...
Thanks for the pdf. Very interesting.

The units used are K ohms. Thats 1000 ohms. That makes 40degrees 1160 ohms, or 1.16K ohms, from the chart.

Oil temp range for fluid level check would be approx 1700 ohm at 35degrees to 800 ohms at 45degrees.

Oil is part no STC50531 for 1L. It's red oil. Drain plug washer is TEB100040L. What a coincidence this thread pops up. I plan to have a go myself today. Already have the oil.
 
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Hippo said:

Oil is part no STC50531 for 1L. It's red oil. Drain plug washer is TEB100040L. What a coincidence this thread pops up. I plan to have a go myself today. Already have the oil.
Click to expand...



Hello Hippo. If you do the partial fluid change would you please carefully compare the fluid you take out with the new fluid and advise the number of miles covered. (Colour and smell)
I am not entirely convinced of the need to change at 60k miles and info from you would be interesting. Thank you.
 
Hippo said:
Thanks for the pdf. Very interesting.

The units used are K ohms. Thats 1000 ohms. That makes 40degrees 1160 ohms, or 1.16K ohms, from the chart.

Oil temp range for fluid level check would be approx 1700 ohm at 35degrees to 800 ohms at 45degrees.

Oil is part no STC50531 for 1L. It's red oil. Drain plug washer is TEB100040L. What a coincidence this thread pops up. I plan to have a go myself today. Already have the oil.
Click to expand...


Yes you are right its in K Ohms, Is the oil part number from Landrover? Where did you buy your Jatco oil? any chance of a few pictures of the said oil, any numbers printed on the bottles etc.
 
JonFree, jedi

Auto oil change didn't happen today as it's been raining. Also the garage leaks due to the roof being recovered. Will try Sunday if it's dry (after the F1 racing).

You must use the LRN402 (also called Texaco N402) auto oil specific to this gearbox Jatco type. A different oil is used in the same auto when fitted to a Jaguar apparently. Don't know why but this is what I've been told. The correct oil is red. It smells nicer than other oils! They use the dextron 2 stuff in the USA. This is due to our stuff containing a chemical they don't like over there. Hence they can't import it. Ironic when you think about it. One of the most polluting nation's; There's many a horror story of the dextron 2 stuff (black) said to cause problems and people in the USA try to get hold of our stuff as they say its better. Don't know why.

The correct oil is available from LR main dealers for £12.53 per L and the LR part number is STC50531. £11.28 if you have an Allegiance card. Previously £10 per L so it's gone up a bit. From dry the auto takes 8.5L. Oil change is 4L as some stays in the torque converter. I went to the main dealer to buy mine as it's easier.

There was a theory on the web the auto oil change was done on the 60k service to make the 72k serviced cheaper, as this is when it would normally be done. The v6 72k service has the timing belts changed. Thinking logically about this, LR garages tend to remove the whole engine/auto/ird as one unit to replace the timing belts, for easier access, so changing the oil afterwards isn't much hassle to them. So I'm not sure if this is a spoof theory. 4L of oil and 20 minutes work tops when you've already got it on a level ramp.

I'll check the smell of my old oil and look for signs of contamination. I plan to change the oil by measuring what falls out, then replacing that. Then I'll check the level using the correct method. If this differs by too much, I'll catch what falls out or what extra I put in, and decide what to do if necessary. My auto doesn't have a problem, but I'd still like to replace the oil. Car is on 23500 miles. Mines a 2001 v6. The auto was changed at 12000 miles roughly as the old one leaked so it was stuffed. Low oil stuffed the torque converter as it started to cavitate.

I don't think changing the oil early is a problem. If anything it's a good thing to do. Generally speaking LR advise you to change oils etc early. I assume this is due to them thinking of the vehicles going off road, and doing a lot of work in first gear. Bit like the v6 cam belt change done at 72k when the same engine in the rovers is done a 96k I think. My auto was reconditioned, so I don't know it's previous mileage. They normally open them up and take it all apart, then replace what's warn/broken.

The only real issue with the Freelander Jatco auto is not having a normal level plug or dip stick. Some may say this is a crap design. To my thinking it's ahead of it's time. The Disco 4 doesn't have a dip stick on the 3L diesel engine. I found this out when test driving one at Eastnor Castle for free. You use the dash to see the oil level. Not sure how or what it indicates. It's a shame LR didn't use the speed reading to indicate the Freelander auto oil temp, during a test mode so you could use that to determine auto oil temp when checking the level.

Oil labels below:

Bg1Hoh9.jpg

P4041806 Bg1Hoh9
 
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Hippo said:
JonFree, jedi

Hippo wrote:

You must use the LRN402 (also called Texaco N402) auto oil specific to this gearbox – Jatco type. A different oil is used in the same auto when fitted to a Jaguar apparently. Don’t know why but this is what I’ve been told. The correct oil is red. It smells nicer than other oils! They use the dextron 2 stuff in the USA. This is due to our stuff containing a chemical they don’t like over there. Hence they can’t import it. Ironic when you think about it. One of the most polluting nations… There’s many a horror story of the dextron 2 stuff (black) said to cause problems and people in the USA try to get hold of our stuff as they say its better. Don’t know why.

 Interesting this - a few years ago I was running a SAAB with an Aisin Warner box. The box was contaminated with a mixture of fluid and engine coolant, I had to do a lot of fluid changes to clear it. Once I had the correct level it was so easy to simply measure what came out and replace with the same quantity, not even necessary to warm it up. The fluid specified by SAAB and bought from their main dealer was the expensive Dextron II ! As I needed quite a lot I found some at a motor parts shop at a fraction of the price. Certainly no problem with buying it in the UK. Incidentally it is red, I still have some on the shelf.
Thank you for all your news.


Click to expand...
 
JonFre said:
Hippo said:
JonFree, jedi

Hippo wrote:

You must use the LRN402 (also called Texaco N402) auto oil specific to this gearbox – Jatco type. A different oil is used in the same auto when fitted to a Jaguar apparently. Don’t know why but this is what I’ve been told. The correct oil is red. It smells nicer than other oils! They use the dextron 2 stuff in the USA. This is due to our stuff containing a chemical they don’t like over there. Hence they can’t import it. Ironic when you think about it. One of the most polluting nations… There’s many a horror story of the dextron 2 stuff (black) said to cause problems and people in the USA try to get hold of our stuff as they say its better. Don’t know why.

 Interesting this - a few years ago I was running a SAAB with an Aisin Warner box. The box was contaminated with a mixture of fluid and engine coolant, I had to do a lot of fluid changes to clear it. Once I had the correct level it was so easy to simply measure what came out and replace with the same quantity, not even necessary to warm it up. The fluid specified by SAAB and bought from their main dealer was the expensive Dextron II ! As I needed quite a lot I found some at a motor parts shop at a fraction of the price. Certainly no problem with buying it in the UK. Incidentally it is red, I still have some on the shelf.
Thank you for all your news.

Sorry incorrect spelling - should be DEXRON II without a T. Looked at the container!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
shirley the way aluminium conducts heat you need only hold a thermometer on the lower half of the gear casing after a run and you would not be that far out on temperature.
 
freelance said:
shirley the way aluminium conducts heat you need only hold a thermometer on the lower half of the gear casing after a run and you would not be that far out on temperature.
Click to expand...


This could be true and do the trick, But the things I`ve heard about this Auto box makes it sound very annal, I `m at the thinking that every thing has to be spot on? Or it will explode into a million pieces:D

Tempremental little thing??????
 
jedi said:
Did you manage a fluid change in the end Mr Hippo?
Click to expand...
I've changed the auto oil this evening, but not checked the oil level. Will try that tomorrow. Not driven the car after I did this as it's late. When leaving the Freelander over night to cool down, 4.19L of auto oil fails out of the drain plug when it's removed. I measured this and replaced it with the same amount. All measurement taken when the air and oil was at 9 degrees.

Photo's below of the new oil (red) and the old oil (brown). Sadly this is not a good comparison. Previously before my auto was replaced by a main dealer the oil leaking out was red, as it should be. After the auto replacement we had a massive argument over a squealing problem and the car was returned many times. In short, the MD said in writing they couldn't have added any additives to the IRD and engine oil as they don't have them on site. After sending a sample off to an oil lab they confirmed a high level of phosphorus used in additives. I recorded the sound of them working on the car in the garage too, but at the time couldn't open the file. Later on I could. Hence I believe the oil has changed to brown due to additives. The smell of the new red oil is sweet, and strong. The brown oil has the same smell, but not as strong. It doesn't smell of burning or have any sediment in it. Auto oil seems to be runnier than engine oil. Both oils seem to have the same runniness.

Sadly my auto temp sensor measures 1300 ohms when at 9 degrees air temp (not driven for 24 hours). Poking a thermometer in to the auto confirms the temp as 9 degrees. I think I got the correct wires,white with pink and pink with black. I'll try measuring this with the auto computer connector removed in case I'm measuring the inputs resistance in the computers circuit in parallel to the temp sensor...

More to follow soon.

azrRYYy.jpg

P4041808 azrRYYy

3WMh2PA.jpg

P4041810 3WMh2PA
 
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jedi said:
This could be true and do the trick, But the things I`ve heard about this Auto box makes it sound very annal, I `m at the thinking that every thing has to be spot on? Or it will explode into a million pieces:D

Tempremental little thing??????
Click to expand...
If the oil level is low, it will cavitate. This is when air gets in the torque converter. It will destroy the torque converter. You'll get a huge thud when it changes gear. When test driving a Freelander auto, get the car warm on a run, then switch off. Restart and continue to drive. At this point the fault is more likely to show, if it's present. If you were to take the Freelander to a dealer to have this fault checked out, they'd set the level and change you £110. Also a resistance diagnostic on the sensors and T4 check for error codes etc. Only for you to return 2 weeks later when the faults returned. Then they'll remember to advise you it's leaking auto oil. Not that I hold a grudge. Oh, and it's ****ed.

If you over fill you'll pressurise it and blow the seals. I did this when mine was leaking. It was going to be replaced anyway, but I didn't know how to check the level. Hence when it gave a huge thud, I topped it up. ****ed out of every seal in the end. There was no chance of fixing it, and this was a temp measure until the garage replaced the auto.

Hence why the auto oil level is listed as needing to be precise. The garage would only check the level after having the car over night, to confirm it's cold when they start the diag and level check the jatco is reliable. But when they fail, most auto garages I went too couldn't, or wouldn't help. Most will only replace the whole auto. Stops any further problems as everythings been changed - so the fault will have gone.
 
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Hippo said:
Photo’s below of the new oil (red) and the old oil (brown). Sadly this is not a good comparison. Previously before my auto was replaced by a main dealer the oil leaking out was red, as it should be. After the auto replacement we had a massive argument over a squealing problem and the car was returned many times. In short, the MD said in writing they couldn’t have added any additives to the IRD and engine oil as they don’t have them on site. After sending a sample off to an oil lab they confirmed a high level of phosphorus – used in additives. I recorded the sound of them working on the car in the garage too, but at the time couldn’t open the file. Later on I could. Hence I believe the oil has changed to brown due to additives. The smell of the new red oil is sweet, and strong. The brown oil has the same smell, but not as strong. It doesn’t smell of burning or have any sediment in it. Auto oil seems to be runnier than engine oil. Both oils seem to have the same runniness.

Thank you Hippo for the pics. Don't like the look of the removed fluid - suggest you do another change soon when the old has mixed with the new. Normally (IIRC) auto fluid is only damaged by overheating, it then smells burnt and changes to a straw colour. Without overheating it will last a very long time, especially the latest fluid types. I do wonder what your box was filled with. Good luck with it.


Click to expand...
 
Can someone confirm if the nut in the pic below is the level check plug on the FL 1 Jatco we're all talking about? I think later models had a normal hex nut rather than an allen key.

If it's not, then I'll remove the pic to stop confusion.

edit: removed pic
 
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Nice pics Mr Hippo, that fluid does look very dirty? did you say you had a new box fitted? How long ago was this?

Do you have any pics of the temp sensor wire you used to measure the temp, It will probably need to be measured out of circuit(disconected) to stop any false readings.

I`m not 100% sure but that could be the right plug, heres a pic i found on another site.

1262392549-JF506e_level_check_plug.jpg
 
Auto was changed approx 11k miles ago.

After a bit of messing about I used a thermometer to measure the temp. As suggested by Freelance. I pushed this against the side of the underneath of the auto, with a tissue to press the probe adjacent to the metal work. Available from maplin. Poking this into the auto filler gives you the same temp reading. I started the engine and watched the auto temp rise. It's slow enough and took 5 minutes or so. Taking it for a drive for 5 to 10 minutes as the Haynes manual suggests puts the auto way above the 35 to 45 degrees ideal for oil level checking.

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ht-wide-range-probe-thermometer-l55an

Temp reading below is a casserole, not my auto.

Q4ro73Z.jpg

PB231883 Q4ro73Z

Pictures of the connectors below. I had trouble getting a good connection so gave up with this. Also my temp sensor reads 1300 ohms at 10 degrees so it's a little out as it's in circuit. I forgot to have a go reading it afterwards as I was ****ed off. Switching off the engine and separating the connectors and checking, then putting back is a bit of a pain, but doable.

b9a1Mqj.jpg

P6281053 b9a1Mqj


As I understand it, with the engine running, the auto oil pump should fill the torque converter with oil. The level at the level plug should then be correct. If not, then oil will drip out. Only remove the oil level plug with the engine running. Sadly mine gave out over a litre of oil. This is a concern. What I plan to do tomorrow is to drop the oil out of the drain plug and measure it again. I hope only 4.19L drops out. I'm sure it will, as I'm sure I put the right amount in. I only had 4.8L at the time, and had 0.6L left afterwards. If I've not made a mistake and over filled, the auto must have been over filled by the main dealer, or there's a fault. If it were too high, then I'd expect seals to fail prior to this as 1 litre is a lot. I must admit I didn't allow it to continue to run out the level plug and put the bolt back.

It could be my auto oil level was wrong to start with. It could be that something has filled the auto with extra fluid, like the leak from the crankshaft seal which leaks slightly (between engine and auto I think, not sure if this can) or it could be wading which has topped it up. I don't think this is the case. It could be coolant, but that's not dropping and I would expect it to separate from the oil. I'm more inclined to think my level plug tube inside has a hole in it at the base. Hence too much oil will come out. So I'm a little stuck at the moment. It may have to go to a main dealer for a level check, unless there's someone else on here that can confirm exactly 4.19L fell out of their auto drain plug?

It drives ok and is a little smoother than before. Obviously this will have to be tested over a greater distance than nipping round the block. When restarting when hot it runs ok.
 
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