Italian 88 Series III - Should I or Shouln't I?

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I was wondering why some many jobs on a series need 6 foot long arms and I think its because they use so many nuts and bolts, most modern cars clip together or use captive or self tapping screws so they go together from one side. A series needs someone both sides. I have a collection of spanners of all shapes along with clamps and bars but its a pain when you spend 10 mins balanceing it all into place then it falls off on the first touch becuase you put it the wrong way round!
 
rob1miles said:
I was wondering why some many jobs on a series need 6 foot long arms and I think its because they use so many nuts and bolts, most modern cars clip together or use captive or self tapping screws so they go together from one side. A series needs someone both sides. I have a collection of spanners of all shapes along with clamps and bars but its a pain when you spend 10 mins balanceing it all into place then it falls off on the first touch becuase you put it the wrong way round!
Click to expand...

It's because the vehicles were not designed to be worked on alone.
LR staff are never alone, they are either in the factory, or in a landrover dealership. Always an apprentice, or a clever special tool, to hold the nut on the back or whatever.

Unfortunately, the owner/maintainer very often tends to be alone, and with a limited toolkit.
 
I know it’s early days and I have a long way to go, but the tops of the wing panels on both sides have been sliced through with an angle grinder near the bulkhead and the aluminum is torn in a another point near where the air filter goes (it’s a LH drive). I’ve been looking online for replacements but can only find the outer panels. Is there anywhere I can source the inner panels?
 
Mandy said:
I know it’s early days and I have a long way to go, but the tops of the wing panels on both sides have been sliced through with an angle grinder near the bulkhead and the aluminum is torn in a another point near where the air filter goes (it’s a LH drive). I’ve been looking online for replacements but can only find the outer panels. Is there anywhere I can source the inner panels?
Click to expand...

Should be in here. They are not inexpensive. Second hand should be available on Ebay etc.

http://www.paddockspares.com/parts-and-accessories/land-rover-series-2-and-3/body-and-panels.html
 
I’ll have to keep a eye out for some 2nd hand ones. I don’t have anything against patching them up (I’ll have to learn how to do it). I’m not interested in creating a museum piece and don’t really mind if the bodywork looks a bit bashed about. rob1miles how do you patch aluminum panels? Can you link something for me?
 
You get some correct thickness alluminuim alloy sheet - most of the body is not structural so you can use a softer/annealed grade that's easy to work. You want the same thickness, its about 2mm. There are several ways to do it depending on where it is - how much it shows and how much space you have to work, (and how much time you ahve!)
1 Put a larger patch over the top, chamfer the edges. Make it 1" bigger all round and put a row of pop rivets in at 1" pitch 1/2" from the edge. Round the corners. If you use 1/8" countersunk rivets and countersink them just right (its takes practice) they are nearly invisible. You need to get the rivet lengh right, I tend to buy several lenghts as they are cheap.
2 Cut out the damage to an oblong (make patch and mark round that) and make a plate 1" bigger. Drill the plate 1" pitch 1/2" in all round then put it over the hole (mark out carefully so its central) then drill through. Now turn it side on and put it through the hole then rivet it so its on the inside. Then take the patch and rivet it onto the back plate. This will make a flush patch that's close to invisible if you use csk rivets. The patch should be 0.010 smaller all round so the trick is to make the patch first then use a sharp scriber and cut to the line, it will be about right. This looks great but is a lot of work, its a lot of careful fileing.
3 Make a patch, drill 1/4 in at 1" pitch, draw a line round it, Cut out 1/2" smaller all round, joggle the edges then fix the patch in with no-nails then drill through and rivet. Its 1/2 overlap becuase that's all the jogglers do. This is quite quick if you have a joggler but joggleing corners is tricky and you may have to chamfer them.
Go to your nearest aircraft museum and look at any wartime aricraft, they are usually covered in patches (they would rivet over bullet holes over night) and you can see how its done and get some ideas.
I've been on modern airliners and seen a chamfered edge (not flush) patch so they must be good for 600mph (plenty of margin there!).
Buy a set of Cleco clips and pliers - not expensive and save a lot of time.
 
Last edited:
rob1miles said:
You get some correct thickness alluminuim alloy sheet - most of the body is not structural so you can use a softer/annealed grade that's easy to work. You want the same thickness, its about 2mm. There are several ways to do it depending on where it is - how much it shows and how much space you have to work, (and how much time you ahve!)
1 Put a larger patch over the top, chamfer the edges. Make it 1" bigger all round and put a row of pop rivets in at 1" pitch 1/2" from the edge. Round the corners. If you use 1/8" countersunk rivets and countersink them just right (its takes practice) they are nearly invisible. You need to get the rivet lengh right, I tend to buy several lenghts as they are cheap.
2 Cut out the damage to an oblong (make patch and mark round that) and make a plate 1" bigger. Drill the plate 1" pitch 1/2" in all round then put it over the hole (mark out carefully so its central) then drill through. Now turn it side on and put it through the hole then rivet it so its on the inside. Then take the patch and rivet it onto the back plate. This will make a flush patch that's close to invisible if you use csk rivets. The patch should be 0.010 smaller all round so the trick is to make the patch first then use a sharp scriber and cut to the line, it will be about right. This looks great but is a lot of work, its a lot of careful fileing.
3 Make a patch, drill 1/4 in at 1" pitch, draw a line round it, Cut out 1/2" smaller all round, joggle the edges then fix the patch in with no-nails then drill through and rivet. Its 1/2 overlap becuase that's all the jogglers do. This is quite quick if you have a joggler but joggleing corners is tricky and you may have to chamfer them.
Go to your nearest aircraft museum and look at any wartime aricraft, they are usually covered in patches (they would rivet over bullet holes over night) and you can see how its done and get some ideas.
I've been on modern airliners and seen a chamfered edge (not flush) patch so they must be good for 600mph (plenty of margin there!).
Buy a set of Cleco clips and pliers - not expensive and save a lot of time.
Click to expand...

That sounds like a good technique. And should be more than adequate for a landrover.

A friend who is a good welder tells me it is also possible to weld Birmabright, using a low heat oxy acetylene, and a strip of Birmabright as a welding rod.
He said it is difficult, as the metal melts very easily, and there is no colour change to guide you as to when it is about to melt. But it does work.

Not tried that myself, and not about to. My own welding is more suited to thick steel! :D
 
The reason I like rivetted repairs is that they are cold so there's no fire risk. There's a lot of old paint and grease on the back of the panels and its hard to get clean. I've tried spot welding and very annoyingly only got it to work on test peices about 25% of the time and never on the vehicle so I've given up on that idea.
 
Thanks for the instructions - very much appreciated. I think I need to do a couple of test runs on something else first but that sounds doable. As soon as I've finished a couple of things that need doing around the house, I'll try my hand at doing an aluminium patchwork
 
Thanks :) It’s rusted at the back. Now getting the inside upholstery out so I can start taking the roof off. Was ****ed off because the indoor light fell off and the glass broke :( in spite of all the precautions to make sure it didn’t fall off. Swings and roundabouts but I’m enjoying the challenge. The best has yet to come!
 
Mandy said:
Thanks :) It’s rusted at the back. Now getting the inside upholstery out so I can start taking the roof off. Was ****ed off because the indoor light fell off and the glass broke :( in spite of all the precautions to make sure it didn’t fall off. Swings and roundabouts but I’m enjoying the challenge. The best has yet to come!
Click to expand...

They usually rust in the rear half of the chassis first, due to that area being where all the spray and dirt tends to end up in motion.
Often a fairly simple repair, as many repair sections are available, crossmembers, outriggers, up to a full half chassis.
 
Turboman said:
They usually rust in the rear half of the chassis first, due to that area being where all the spray and dirt tends to end up in motion.
Often a fairly simple repair, as many repair sections are available, crossmembers, outriggers, up to a full half chassis.
Click to expand...
I presume you need to be good at welding?
 
I've been researching aluminium patches, rivets and nibblers as I'd like to try and fix the holes in the wings. I've also invested in an aluminium panel and have tried making a small patch. I'll try riveting it tomorrow. I think I can do this :)
 
Mandy said:
I presume you need to be good at welding?
Click to expand...

Or know someone who is. Welding isn't that difficult if you understand the principles, and have a decent MIG welder and a small grinder. Practice makes perfect, just get some scrap steel and play around until you are good enough to tackle safety critical stuff.
There are guidelines as to what standard of work is required for safety on a vehicle, and to pass MOT or whatever you have over there. And plenty of youtube tutorials about the principles.

On the other hand, for a single job like welding on a crossmember or half chassis it might be easier to pay a local welder who is already equipped and skilled.
 
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