Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers

  • Thread starter Dianelos Georgoudis
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In article <7cwmb.25220$e01.49323@attbi_s02>,
[email protected] (Brent P) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
>
>>> I especially like how they try to explain away the dinosaurs. That
>>> they lived 6000 years ago. There are acient monuments built to star
>>> alignments older than that. (The pyramids of giza for one) There is
>>> alot of real evidence that civilization (and the knowledge/technology)
>>> is far older than established science claims, older than your
>>> creationists claim the dinosaurs are.
>>>
>>> For instance the kind of real evidence I speak of are things like star
>>> alignments of various acient monuments around the world. Monuments that
>>> go under water, on ground that hasn't been dry land since the last
>>> ice age, etc and so forth. Come up with hard stuff like that for
>>> creation. Not just the bible says so, so it is.

>>
>> All of the above depends on an accurate means of dating things that
>> occurred before any of us were around, and that simply doesn't exist.
>> And there is no way to calibrate accurately or prove it anyway.

>
>It's very easy to get an accurate rate. By measuring the precession (sp?)
>of stars now we can tell how they appeared thousands of years ago.
>Some acient cultures appear to have been able to make these calculations
>as well. The same goes for layers of ice, tree rings, soil depth, etc
>etc etc...
>
>

Yes, but creationists insist the universe is only 6000 years old. Biblical
infallability, you know.
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:48:15 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>>Then, obviously, that can't be the cause of global warming, can it?
>>Since global warming happened with the lower CO2 levels,

>
>No, it started the same time CO2 started rising.


Then where did all the ice go?
It seems that you are denying the presence of pasdt ice ages (and the
following global warmings).
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:46:20 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>>It does for me. Doesn't get much more incredible than saying we all
>>came from a random association of elements... How many ordered systems
>>do you know of that just spontaneously emerged from a pile of parts?

>
>The universe?


The universe?
Are you saying that it came from parts that were just floating around?
Doesn't that just beg the question: "where did those parts come from"?

 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:57:55 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>Sure, got to make sure. But the UN couldn't find them, and 150,000 US troops
>haven't found them


Let's try again:
Hypothetical question:
It's a given that you have illegal drugs in your house.
The police send you a notice that they will search your house, giving
you the dates and times. They ask you to be there as they search, in
fact, they ask you to help them by showing them the various places
within your house.
Are you stupid enough to let them fund any illegal drugs?

 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:57:55 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>>The proof is that they did exist, and Saddam could not account for what
>>happened to them.

>
>LOL! Are you that dumb, or do you think we are? Where are they?


Let's try this yet again:
Hypothetical question...
Firget it, you don't get it.

 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:52:44 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Bill Funk <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Fri, 24 Oct 03 16:05:50 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, Vic Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>Why the reputations are better is likely due to advertising strategy,
>>>>but the facts tell a different story. Comparing actual death rates per
>>>>million registered vehicle years shows the following data (IIHS.ORG):
>>>>
>>>>Mercedes C class = 52
>>>>Volvo 850 - 39
>>>>Ford Expedition 4WD = 39
>>>>
>>>Great. You compare a Mercedes the size of an Escape to an SUV bigger than

>an
>>>S-class.

>>
>>The the larger size *does* make the SUV safer?
>>

>Apples should not be compared to oranges.


That's it?
*THAT'S* your answer?
That's pretty disingenuous of you.
Can you not grasp the question? Is your reading comprehension that
bad? It certainly seems so.

 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:54:22 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>>OK . . . show me one CAR or MINIVAN that has comparable seating and cargo
>>space for less money than the typical SUV?

>
>Any minivan. You've got to get a Suburban or Excursion to get as much seating
>or cargo space as a Town & Country, Sienna, Odyssey, etc.


Show a mini-van that has as much seating space and as much cargo room
as a Suburban.
 
On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:54:22 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
wrote:

>>with good
>>towing capacity. -Dave
>>

>
>Why, for that one day you might have to tow a house?


That *you* don't tow does not mean others don't.
Be a little more honest, and you'll gain much in the way of being
believed.

 
Lloyd Parker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>John David Galt wrote:
>>
>>>"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>It does for me. Doesn't get much more incredible than saying we all
>>>>came from a random association of elements... How many ordered systems
>>>>do you know of that just spontaneously emerged from a pile of parts? I
>>>>wish we could build cars that way! Would be much cheaper...
>>>
>>>
>>>That's only incredible if you ignore the fact that all the alternative
>>>"explanations" require similar coincidences, ie, who created God?

>>
>>I agree. Saying we don't know for sure is accurate. Saying evolution
>>is based on fact and creation is not based on fact, is simply not
>>accurate.

>
>
> Wrong. Evolution is as established fact as the existence of atoms.


Only in your mind.


>> The only honest answer is that we don't know the complete
>>answer and likely never will. Lloyd, and others who claim to be
>>scientists, are incorrect at best, and disingenuous at worst, when they
>>claim that evolution is fact based.

>
>
> And you're either ignorant or a liar.


Any you're both based on your past posts in this group.


>>I believe creation is the best available explanation.

>
>
> Then you're stupid too.


True to form, name calling always occurs once the argument is lost.

Plonk.

 
Lloyd Parker wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Dave C. wrote:
>>
>>>>>You can't do it because there are none on your side. It's like someone
>>>>>claiming there are facts supporting creationism.
>>>>
>>>>Or spontaneous emergence from the primordial soup.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Well at least that doesn't stretch credibility beyond the breaking
>>>oint. -Dave
>>>
>>>

>>
>>It does for me. Doesn't get much more incredible than saying we all
>>came from a random association of elements... How many ordered systems
>>do you know of that just spontaneously emerged from a pile of parts?

>
>
> The universe? The sun? The earth?
>
> To claim something we've only got 1 example of can't be because other things
> are different is fallacious logic.


Fallacious logic? Well, you are obviously an authority in this area.

Matt

 
"Jim Warman" <mechanic> wrote in message
news:zOKmb.16229$zx2.12038@edtnps84...
> Trucks don't generally handle "poorly"..... however, they do handle like
> trucks. This is not a really well kept secret - well not if we actually
> stayed awake in school.


What school did you go to? I don't remember studying the handling
characteristics of vehicles in school. -Dave


 

"Lloyd Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "The Ancient One" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Lloyd Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> "The Ancient One" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >"Lloyd Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> >> Bill Putney <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Joe wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "Where are the WMD? Facts, please"
> >> >> >> Ask Bill Clinton. He said they were there too. Or ask the UN

who
> >as a
> >> >> body
> >> >> >> said that he had them. Or better yet, ask Saddam who ADMITTED to
> >> >having
> >> >> >> them (OK, not a good source). The whole WMD "argument" is weak

at
> >> >best...
> >> >> >> He had them, you KNOW it. There is proof of it.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Read what Bill Clinton had to say about the matter during his

reign
> >of
> >> >> >> terror:...
> >> >> >
> >> >> >And of course Lloyd will find some way not to accept that

information
> >as
> >> >> >facts (proving what you said in your preceding post).
> >> >> >
> >> >> >You'd think that Lloyd, being some kind of teacher of science,

would
> >> >> >understand the law of the conservation of mass. It essentially says

> >that
> >> >> >in a closed system, the amount (mass) of matter stays constant. If

> >you
> >> >> >consider the earth a closed system (we can assume that SH didn't

> >rocket
> >> >> >them off into space), then if SH had them a few years ago, then

they
> >> >> >still exist (that is, if you subtract out the ones that were used

on
> >his
> >> >> >own people) - somewhere on earth. They must either still be in

Iraq
> >> >> >(either above or below ground), or in some other country(ies). If

> >they
> >> >> >were destroyed (i.e., converted to a harmless form), then that

should
> >be
> >> >> >documentable or provable in some physical way. Conservation of

mass.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Summary: In order not to violate the law of the conservation of

mass,
> >if
> >> >> >they existed they would have to have been:
> >> >> >(1) Dissipated (by use)
> >> >> >(2) Moved and found (so far no)
> >> >> >(3) Moved and not found found (i.e., well hidden - buried, built

into
> >> >> >structures - concrete maybe, or moved to another country)
> >> >> >(4) Shot into space
> >> >>
> >> >> (5) Destroyed by the UN inspectors between 1991-2003, as was their

job.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >That's funny, if the UN inspectors destroyed them, you would think

they
> >> >would have remembered that.
> >>
> >> They did. They reported this. Bush refused to believe them.

> >
> >And yet they kept looking for them, or are you to dumb to realize why

they
> >were there?
> >

>
> Sure, got to make sure. But the UN couldn't find them, and 150,000 US

troops
> haven't found them.


Bingo, The UN couldn't find them, although it is well documented that they
existed. That is why they were still looking, that is why we are still
looking. We haven't found Saddam yet either, but we know he exists as well.
Or do you think that is also a lie?

>
> >>
> >>
> >> > Was this before or after they were kicked out of
> >> >Iraq by Saddam?
> >>
> >> We withdrew them prior to bombing Iraq.

> >
> >No, Saddam kicked them out in 1998.
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >All that the world demanded was that he show them or account for

their
> >> >> >destruction, and he in effect refused. Then the rest of the world
> >> >> >decided that they really didn't mean it.
> >> >>
> >> >> And now the world demands Bush prove they exist, since he claimed

they
> >> >did.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Since Saddam has used them several times in the past, only a totally
> >> >braindead Liberal could claim they didn't exist.
> >>
> >> Bush claimed they existed in 2003. Where is the proof?
> >>

> >
> >The proof is that they did exist, and Saddam could not account for what
> >happened to them.

>
> LOL! Are you that dumb, or do you think we are? Where are they?


Turn your brain on for a minute Lloyd, I know thinking is painful for you,
but do try. WHEN they are found, I'll be waiting for you to admit your
ignorance, IF they are not found, you can bet they will be used someday.
Again, the fact that Saddam had them is well documented, where they are now
is a mystery, are you reallty to dumb to understand something as simple as
that, or is it all an act?
BTW, yes, I do think you are dumb, you prove it with every post you make.


>
> >
> >>
> >> >Question is Where are they
> >> >now, not do they exist.
> >>
> >> Prove their existence first

> >
> >Well documented, look it up lazy.
> >..

>
> Liar. Prove they existed this year.


Look it up lazy, should take you about ten minutes to find all the proof you
can handle. It is well documented, and has been reported numerous times.
Pull your head out of the sand, look up Halejba, he used them there. Sheesh,
you're not only dumb, you enjoy being ignorant. Saves you the trouble of
thinking.

>
> >>
> >>
> >> >If they were destroyed, why couldn't, or wouldn't,
> >> >Saddam provide proof of it?
> >>
> >> Prove you've destroyed all traces of drugs in your house.

> >
> >Irrelevant, I have not been ordered to destroy anything.

>
> No, it illustrates you cannot prove a negative.


Even you know better than that dumbass. Read what I wrote, IF i had been
ordered to destroy any drugs, or anything for that matter, I would do so in
the presence of witnesses the government would accept, such as the UN
inspectors were in Iraq before Saddam kicked them out in 98. You do know how
to read don't you Lloyd?

>
>
> >If I were, I would
> >destroy it with legally recognized witnesses. Sasddam kept meticulous
> >records,

>
> How do you know? The US does too, but our military is even missing planes
> from its inventory.


Saddams habits are well documented, look it up lazy.

>
>
> >he could easily have provided the proof of where they were and what
> >he did, he choose not to. Perhaps, as has been suggested, he destroyed

them
> >but choose not to reveal that, hopeing to use them as a bluff. Well, we
> >caled his bluff.

>
> Yeah, we broke international law, invaded a country, and find out we were

lied
> to as the reaons.


We enforced international law, which Saddam has been violating for twelve
years. Yes, we invaded a country, and the majority of the Iraqi people are
glad we did, of course, the Liberal media focuses on the negative, so the
positive results are seldom reported until you talk to people who are
actually there. And yes, I have, though a liar like you will never believe
anyone ever tells the truth.

>
> >Thak you for once again proving yourself an ignorant, closed-minded

Liberal.
>
> Thank you for once again proving yourself a war-mongering sheep of a
> right-winger.


LOL, you're a joke Lloyd. The difference between you and me is that although
I hate the war as much as you do, I know that the price of freedom is always
paid for with the blood of brave men and women. A warmongering sheep? When
did you ever see a sheep go to war?
There is a time for talk and negotiation, there is a time to back it up.
There is also a time for you to grow up, and now is the time. The real world
isn't all sugar and spice, sometimes you have to trim a few thorns.

>
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >Keep posting Lloyd, everytime you do it serves
> >> >to educate all the new readers about just how ignorant you truly are.
> >> >
> >> >! =-----
> >> >
> >> >

> >
> >



 

"Lloyd Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Brent P wrote:

>
> >>
> >> For instance the kind of real evidence I speak of are things like star
> >> alignments of various acient monuments around the world. Monuments that
> >> go under water, on ground that hasn't been dry land since the last
> >> ice age, etc and so forth. Come up with hard stuff like that for
> >> creation. Not just the bible says so, so it is.

> >
> >All of the above depends on an accurate means of dating things that
> >occurred before any of us were around, and that simply doesn't exist.
> >And there is no way to calibrate accurately or prove it anyway.
> >
> >

>
> Sorry, radioactive dating is quite accurate.


Prove it. Not to me, but to someone who chooses not to believe it. Now you
know what arguing with you is like, you choose not to believ anything you
don't already believe. That is why you are Usenets biggest laughing stock.

>
> >Matt
> >



 

"Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Lloyd Parker wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>John David Galt wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>It does for me. Doesn't get much more incredible than saying we all
> >>>>came from a random association of elements... How many ordered

systems
> >>>>do you know of that just spontaneously emerged from a pile of parts?

I
> >>>>wish we could build cars that way! Would be much cheaper...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>That's only incredible if you ignore the fact that all the alternative
> >>>"explanations" require similar coincidences, ie, who created God?
> >>
> >>I agree. Saying we don't know for sure is accurate. Saying evolution
> >>is based on fact and creation is not based on fact, is simply not
> >>accurate.

> >
> >
> > Wrong. Evolution is as established fact as the existence of atoms.

>
> Only in your mind.
>
>
> >> The only honest answer is that we don't know the complete
> >>answer and likely never will. Lloyd, and others who claim to be
> >>scientists, are incorrect at best, and disingenuous at worst, when they
> >>claim that evolution is fact based.

> >
> >
> > And you're either ignorant or a liar.

>
> Any you're both based on your past posts in this group.
>
>
> >>I believe creation is the best available explanation.

> >
> >
> > Then you're stupid too.

>
> True to form, name calling always occurs once the argument is lost.
>


Or when your chatting with Lloyd, calling him names is fun.
WHy is it fun? Because it's true! ;-)

> Plonk.
>



 

"Lloyd Parker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
a bunch of meaningless BS.

I see you still won't tell us what peer reviewed journals you read Lloyd,
nor where you have been published.
You're no scientist, your a wannabe. Shutup and stop pretending to be
something you will never be, you are embarrrassing the real scientist with
your shameful behavior.


 

"Bill Funk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 26 Oct 03 10:48:15 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
> wrote:
>
> >>Then, obviously, that can't be the cause of global warming, can it?
> >>Since global warming happened with the lower CO2 levels,

> >
> >No, it started the same time CO2 started rising.

>
> Then where did all the ice go?
> It seems that you are denying the presence of pasdt ice ages (and the
> following global warmings).


Only an idiot would believe the climate we have now is stable. It has never
remained stable for long, regardless of whether man were here or not the
climate would still warm for awhile, then cool off again, then warm again,
just as it always has. Lloyds claim is that the current global warming is
man made. He ignores all the evidence which contradicts his claim. He is a
joke, a self delusional wannabe scientist grasping for any fame he can find.
He is actually prety pathetic, but not so much I won't laugh at his stone
age beliefs.


 

"Dave C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Jim Warman" <mechanic> wrote in message
> news:zOKmb.16229$zx2.12038@edtnps84...
> > Trucks don't generally handle "poorly"..... however, they do handle like
> > trucks. This is not a really well kept secret - well not if we actually
> > stayed awake in school.


I agree. My truck handles great, as long as I don't try to drive it like a
sports car.

>
> What school did you go to? I don't remember studying the handling
> characteristics of vehicles in school. -Dave


You must not have had Drivers education then.

>
>



 
The Ancient One wrote:
> "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Lloyd Parker wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>> "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>John David Galt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Matthew S. Whiting" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>It does for me. Doesn't get much more incredible than saying we all
>>>>>>came from a random association of elements... How many ordered
>>>>>

> systems
>
>>>>>>do you know of that just spontaneously emerged from a pile of parts?
>>>>>

> I
>
>>>>>>wish we could build cars that way! Would be much cheaper...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>That's only incredible if you ignore the fact that all the alternative
>>>>>"explanations" require similar coincidences, ie, who created God?
>>>>
>>>>I agree. Saying we don't know for sure is accurate. Saying evolution
>>>>is based on fact and creation is not based on fact, is simply not
>>>>accurate.
>>>
>>>
>>>Wrong. Evolution is as established fact as the existence of atoms.

>>
>>Only in your mind.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>The only honest answer is that we don't know the complete
>>>>answer and likely never will. Lloyd, and others who claim to be
>>>>scientists, are incorrect at best, and disingenuous at worst, when they
>>>>claim that evolution is fact based.
>>>
>>>
>>>And you're either ignorant or a liar.

>>
>>Any you're both based on your past posts in this group.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I believe creation is the best available explanation.
>>>
>>>
>>>Then you're stupid too.

>>
>>True to form, name calling always occurs once the argument is lost.
>>

>
>
> Or when your chatting with Lloyd, calling him names is fun.
> WHy is it fun? Because it's true! ;-)
>
>
>>Plonk.
>>

>
>
>


For a brief time, then it becomes a waste of time. That is what twit
filters are for and now Lloyd is in mine so I don't have to seen his
rantings any longer.

Matt

 
Hey, that simple comparison was to refute the original statement that
Mercedes and Volvo had better reputations for safety than SUV's. Alas,
those two models were the only ones I could find to compare with
directly.

=Vic=
Bear Gap, PA

Lloyd Parker wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Bill Funk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >On Fri, 24 Oct 03 16:05:50 GMT, [email protected] (Lloyd Parker)
> >wrote:
> >
> >>In article <[email protected]>, Vic Klein <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>Why the reputations are better is likely due to advertising strategy,
> >>>but the facts tell a different story. Comparing actual death rates per
> >>>million registered vehicle years shows the following data (IIHS.ORG):
> >>>
> >>>Mercedes C class = 52
> >>>Volvo 850 - 39
> >>>Ford Expedition 4WD = 39
> >>>
> >>Great. You compare a Mercedes the size of an Escape to an SUV bigger than

> an
> >>S-class.

> >
> >The the larger size *does* make the SUV safer?
> >

> Apples should not be compared to oranges.

 
> > What school did you go to? I don't remember studying the handling
> > characteristics of vehicles in school. -Dave

>
> You must not have had Drivers education then.
>


I take it you received "Drivers education" somewhere outside the United
States then. If someone told me any driver's ed class here in the U.S.
covered handling characteristics of vehicles, I'd be so shocked I'd probably
experience instant heart failure. The driver's ed I remember consisted of
lots of lectures and movies that made you lose your lunch. It was far from
helpful, and had absolutely NOTHING to do with driving. -Dave


 
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