Huge study about safety can be misinterpreted by SUV drivers

  • Thread starter Dianelos Georgoudis
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"Douglas A. Shrader" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Dave C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > SUVs get 8mpg. Ya that's a good generalization. Keep'em coming.
>>
>> Actually, that's pretty accurate, if we're talking about the SUVs that
>SELL
>> WELL. The ones that get good mileage are enough like cars that they don't
>> appeal to SUV buyers. -Dave
>>
>
>My 91 GMC K2500 pickup with a 350 engine gets 17.6 MPG highway and you think
>saying an SUV geting 8 MPG is accurate?
>Just what SUV are you thinking of here?
>Even the largest of them should get 14 or better, though I don't have
>accurate numbers handy at the moment.

The EPA estimates city mileage to be between 10 and 15 for full-size
pickups. From my driving experience, I think that the EPA numbers are high
for city and low for highway, at least for my driving style. My
brother-in-law's F-350 gets 6 mpg city and 8mpg highway, but most of the
time it was on the highway, it was towing something.

The full sized trucks and SUVs that are three-quarter ton or smaller all
have city mileage from 10-15 and highway mileage from 15-19. The one-tons
(trucks only, I know of now SUVs with that title) and some of the "heavy
duty" 3/4 ton ones are of sufficient GVWR that they do not get listed with
the EPA as passenger vehicles and are worse for mileage, but they aren't as
easy to look up for all of them in one place.

Marc
For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
 


Bill Putney wrote:
>
> Dave Milne wrote:
> >
> > I'd rather incompetents were banned full stop.
>
> Repeating what I put in another post, the liberals would *never* allow
> that. Can't you hear their reasoning now: "By keeping an incompetent
> driver off the road, you would in effect be punishing his/her innocent
> children. Therefore it would be better to let the incompetent parents
> continue to drive without restriction. A few more people might be
> killed as a result, but at least the innocent children would not be
> punished."
>

Nonsense. I'm definitely liberal, or beyond, and I strongly support
tougher licensing requirements.

I think that a lot of us know that the real problem isn't so much the
SUV's themselves, but SOME of the people who drive them. The people who
don't understand, or don't care, that their vehicle does not have the
turning or stopping ability of a road car. The people who take 2 spaces
in a crowded parking lot because they can't operate their vehicle well
enough to fit in 1 space. The not too good driver, normally (and
wisely) timid who suddenly becomes super confident. Oh, I could go on
an on.

Lisa
 
But these points are totally irrelevant as they apply to all vehicles !

Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Lisa Horton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
The people who take 2 spaces
: in a crowded parking lot because they can't operate their vehicle well
: enough to fit in 1 space. The not too good driver, normally (and
: wisely) timid who suddenly becomes super confident. Oh, I could go on
: an on.
:
: Lisa


 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Lon Stowell <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Go drive a *modern* SUV, say the new VW or Porsche one. Then try
> > to keep up with a Turbo Cayenne with a typical sport sedan.
>
> I've driven modern SUVs. Compare apples to apples. If you want to compare
> a $60,000 truck designed to be sporty with a $15,000 car designed to be
> economical, I'd hope that the truck priced at 4 times the cost and with a
> stated sporty goal would be able to impress.
>
> Now, compare the cheaper Boxter S with the Cayenne and get back to me.
> Note that the Boxster is cheaper. Or, since you don't seem to care about
> price in your comparisons, compare the 911 Turbo with the Cayenne Turbo.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

Neither car can tow worth a damn.
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
> >> [email protected] (Brent P) wrote:
> >>
> >> >If I remember right petey has one of those MB ones. I haven't driven
> >> >one, but riding in one doesn't inspire the sort of confindence petey
> >> >boasts about.
> >>
> >> I have driven one of the MB ones. I was unimpressed. It handles well for
> >> a truck, but it is beat by most cars. The ML55 AMG that I drove would
> >> actually beat a large number of cars, but certainly not those cars of a
> >> similar price point.
> >>
> >Speaking of point, was there one in that post?
>
> That trucks, even those like the ML55 AMG, still handle like trucks.
>
> Next time I'll try to use smaller words so you can understand.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

Next time you might not want to say "would actually beat a LARGE number
of cars" when trying to make a point about the poor handling of trucks.
You might come off looking like an idiot or something.
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Matthew S. Whiting" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Who is deceiving them? I don't recall seeing many ads claiming that
> >SUVs are safer than cars.
>
> "A little security in an insecure world." And that is just the first that
> popped into my mind. No, there has never been one where they said "our
> truck is safer than cars," but there have been plenty that play up the idea
> that they are "safe."
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

And they are. Truth in advertising works.
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
> >> P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Uh, nope. I don't expect to wreck but I bought a very safe vehicle
> >> >just in case.
> >> >
> >> >Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
> >>
> >> Because the statistics indicate that a similarly weight in a car would be
> >> safer than what you bought. If you bought something that is heavier than
> >> the heaviest car available, then the problem is obviously CAFE reducing the
> >> availability of large cars.
> >>
> >> Marc
> >> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
> >>
> >Oh do they? Have you read said statics yet Marc?
>
> Yes.
>
> Please post the specific statistics you are referring to so that we all may
> read them. So far, all of them posted indicate that SUVs are less safe.
> You seem to disagree, so I'd like to see what statistics you have to
> support your opinion.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

I just did Marc. Seems that the very statistics that started this
thread show that you are TWICE as likely to be killed driving a small
car than in a large SUV and FOUR TIMES more likely to die in a small car
than a minvan. If you are going to selectively read pieces of
informationt hat support your delusion and ignore everything else they I
guess I'll have to kill file you with the rest of the contumacious
illiterates here.
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> >> The same could be said of practically any motor vehicle, even a geo
> >> >> metro.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >Yes but with the metro you would not have the extra weight which
> >> >generates more momentum
> >>
> >> And with the large SUV, you will be unable to avoid crashes, as your boat
> >> handles like a brick (or is that, "your brick handles like a boat"?).
> >>
> >And yet 20,000 pound 18 wheelers do it every day. Isn't that odd. Must
> >be the extra wheels. Or maybe it's the amphetamines.
>
> Or maybe the safety per mile they see is because they travel a larger
> portion of their miles on controlled access roads? But then, it doesn't
> appear that critical thinking is your forte.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

What the hell are you talking about now Marc? There were over 400,000
crashes with this type of vehicle last year.
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In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
>
> Chris Phillipo wrote:
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> > says...
> > > Not being an SUV driver, I'd simply steer out of the way, knowing that I
> > > can actually turn sharply without rolling over. With any luck, it would
> > > be rainy, or on a curve, and I could see evolution in action as a bonus.
> > >
> > > Lisa
> > >
> >
> > Your ignorance is what will kill you one of these days. Rainy on a
> > curve with you driving? What is the current record for a small car
> > rolling over in a ditch? 15 times I think? Let me know if you break
> > it.
>
> I don't drive a small car. I also don't drive at or beyond the limits
> of my vehicle or skill. I'l be doing the watching, not the rolling.
>
> Lisa
>

You clearly don't understand what type of maneuver would cause a car to
roll and yet you tell me you would be able to avoid it. You are clearly
irrelevant to this discussion.
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In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
>
> Chris Phillipo wrote:
> >
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> > > You may be right in many of your specifics, but I think that their
> > > detail confuses the basic question here. The NHTSA study is not based
> > > on arguments about physics, or even on crash tests. It is based or
> > > real world data: it is based on then number of people who have in fact
> > > died in SUVs as compared to the number of people who have died in
> > > passenger cars of comparable or even less weight.
> > >
> >
> > I'll tell you who is wrong in their specifics. Am I the only one to
> > read the report that is being MIS-quoted?
> >
> > Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
> > Very small 4-door cars 11.56
> > Small 4-door cars 7.85
> > Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
> > Large 4-door cars 3.30
> > Compact pickup trucks 6.82
> > Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
> > Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
> > Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73
> > Large 4-door SUVs 6.79
> > Minivans 2.76
> >
> > The Four vehicle groups with the lowest fatality rates for their own
> > drivers were minivans (2.76), large cars (3.30), large SUVs (3.79), and
> > large (100-series) pickup trucks (4.07).
> >
> > Look who's on top.
>
> Look who's NOT on top, your beloved SUV's. Large cars and minivans,
> both of which represent a lesser threat to other drivers are on top. So
> you can choose more safety for you, your family AND all the other
> drivers on the road, or you can choose an SUV.
>
> Lisa
>

When I said who is on top I mean ON TOP OF THE LIST WITH THE MOST
FATALITIES. Jesus Christ you people are blind.
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> "Douglas A. Shrader" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >"Dave C." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> >
> >> > SUVs get 8mpg. Ya that's a good generalization. Keep'em coming.
> >>
> >> Actually, that's pretty accurate, if we're talking about the SUVs that
> >SELL
> >> WELL. The ones that get good mileage are enough like cars that they don't
> >> appeal to SUV buyers. -Dave
> >>
> >
> >My 91 GMC K2500 pickup with a 350 engine gets 17.6 MPG highway and you think
> >saying an SUV geting 8 MPG is accurate?
> >Just what SUV are you thinking of here?
> >Even the largest of them should get 14 or better, though I don't have
> >accurate numbers handy at the moment.
>
> The EPA estimates city mileage to be between 10 and 15 for full-size
> pickups. From my driving experience, I think that the EPA numbers are high
> for city and low for highway, at least for my driving style. My
> brother-in-law's F-350 gets 6 mpg city and 8mpg highway, but most of the
> time it was on the highway, it was towing something.
>


So Marc, the average of 10 and 15 is 8. Hmm. I'm getting a lot of
valuable insight into your thought processes today. P.S. that F350 is
broken, get it fixed you environment raper.
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At least around here, the large SUV is THE vehicle of choice for the bad
drivers. Unfortunate for those who are not bad drivers but do have
SUV's.

Lisa

Dave Milne wrote:
>
> But these points are totally irrelevant as they apply to all vehicles !
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>
> "Lisa Horton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> The people who take 2 spaces
> : in a crowded parking lot because they can't operate their vehicle well
> : enough to fit in 1 space. The not too good driver, normally (and
> : wisely) timid who suddenly becomes super confident. Oh, I could go on
> : an on.
> :
> : Lisa
 
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
>
> Bill Putney wrote:
> >
> > Dave Milne wrote:
> > >
> > > I'd rather incompetents were banned full stop.
> >
> > Repeating what I put in another post, the liberals would *never* allow
> > that. Can't you hear their reasoning now: "By keeping an incompetent
> > driver off the road, you would in effect be punishing his/her innocent
> > children. Therefore it would be better to let the incompetent parents
> > continue to drive without restriction. A few more people might be
> > killed as a result, but at least the innocent children would not be
> > punished."
> >
>
> Nonsense. I'm definitely liberal, or beyond, and I strongly support
> tougher licensing requirements.
>

And in your ignorance you think that's going to help you when you are
hit by someone who does not hold a valid driver's license. There are a
lot of them on the road now, there will be many more if it becomes
harder to get a license. Anyone ever thing of making safer roads??? Do
you really think that two cars each going 60mph passing 2 feet from each
other with no barrier to separate them is really the safest road design
available today?
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By "Around here" I assume you mean the 3000 mile wide US populated with
260,000,000 people ?


Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Lisa Horton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: At least around here, the large SUV is THE vehicle of choice for the bad
: drivers. Unfortunate for those who are not bad drivers but do have
: SUV's.
:
: Lisa
:
: Dave Milne wrote:
: >
: > But these points are totally irrelevant as they apply to all vehicles !
: >
: > Dave Milne, Scotland
: > '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
: >
: > "Lisa Horton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: > news:[email protected]...
: > The people who take 2 spaces
: > : in a crowded parking lot because they can't operate their vehicle well
: > : enough to fit in 1 space. The not too good driver, normally (and
: > : wisely) timid who suddenly becomes super confident. Oh, I could go on
: > : an on.
: > :
: > : Lisa


 
works for us, and our roadways are a hell of a lot more crowded than yours..

Dave Milne, Scotland
'99 TJ 4.0 Sahara

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
Anyone ever thing of making safer roads??? Do
: you really think that two cars each going 60mph passing 2 feet from each
: other with no barrier to separate them is really the safest road design
: available today?
: --
: ____________________
: Remove "X" from email address to reply.


 
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> >[email protected] says...
> >> P e t e F a g e r l i n <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Uh, nope. I don't expect to wreck but I bought a very safe vehicle
> >> >just in case.
> >> >
> >> >Why is that so hard for you to comprehend?
> >>
> >> Because the statistics indicate that a similarly weight in a car would be
> >> safer than what you bought. If you bought something that is heavier than
> >> the heaviest car available, then the problem is obviously CAFE reducing the
> >> availability of large cars.
> >>
> >> Marc
> >> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
> >>
> >Oh do they? Have you read said statics yet Marc?
>
> Yes.
>
> Please post the specific statistics you are referring to so that we all may
> read them. So far, all of them posted indicate that SUVs are less safe.
> You seem to disagree, so I'd like to see what statistics you have to
> support your opinion.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

Dear Marc, I see you have not read the study to which this thread is
devoted too. Here is crow, please try not to choke on it:

Driver Fatalities per Billion Vehicle Miles
Very small 4-door cars 11.56
Small 4-door cars 7.85
Mid-size 4-door cars 5.26
Large 4-door cars 3.30
Compact pickup trucks 6.82
Large (100-series) pickup trucks 4.07
Small 4-door SUVs 5.68
Mid-size 4-door SUVs 6.73

--
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>
> Then we should move everyone currently in an SUV into a Metro because they
> crash at an exorbitantly high rate and in the smaller vehicle will do less
> damage to others.
>
> Since many of the pro-SUV nuts claim that everyone that doesn't like SUVs
> is jealous because they are too expensive and exclusive for the peons, I'd

What pro SUV nuts? I only see one group of nuts cross posting new
threads on a weekly basis and you are their poster boy.
--
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In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Chris Phillipo <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I thought you said there was no size advantage. At least you're
> >consistent in your inconsistencies.
>
> Then you thought wrong. I never said any such thing. There is an
> advantage when you strike a lighter vehicle and a disadvantage when
> striking a heavier vehicle. I've never said anything to contradict that.
>
> But then, if you can't attack the message, attack the messenger. That's
> all you have left, since the facts are opposite all your claims.
>
> Marc
> For email, remove the first "y" of "whineryy"
>

I hope your foot-in-mouth disease is not contagious:

__________________
From: Marc <[email protected]>
"Robert A. Matern" <[email protected]> wrote:

Robert Said:

>The large
>vehicle ALWAYS enjoys the advantage in any collision with a smaller
vehicle.

MARC said: That is simply false.


You talk in circles Marc, you claim to have driven every SUV anyone
names here, you ignore statistics you yourself have quoted, you are full
of **** and now kill filed. I'm sure you will continue to reply to me,
most sociopaths do. Have a good day.

--
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In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> At least around here, the large SUV is THE vehicle of choice for the bad
> drivers. Unfortunate for those who are not bad drivers but do have
> SUV's.
>
> Lisa
>

Care to support that with an sort of evidence Lisa or is this just
opinion?
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In article <[email protected]>,
jeep@_nospam_milne.info says...
> works for us, and our roadways are a hell of a lot more crowded than yours..
>
> Dave Milne, Scotland
> '99 TJ 4.0 Sahara
>

I would hardly call over 20,000 road deaths a year, "working". But then
again people have come to accept that sort of number as low and
acceptable, as long as their kid isn't number 19,856.
--
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