How important are tyres

[email protected] wrote:

> Nothing, the odd snow day is one of the advantages of living in the
> sticks. The problems come when it snows harder than expected during
> the day and we get stuck getting home or getting to the nursery (also
> in a village) to pick our daughter up. Main problem this year was
> getting back from a weekend in Aviemore after an unexpected snowfall.
> Managed to get through some pretty hairy stuff in our car with 2WD
> and stupid low profile tyres. But since that car has to be replaced
> anyway I'd rather the next one had significantly better traction in
> th snow, simple as that really. I agree that in most cases 2WD with
> good snow tyres will do the job. But surely having power going to all
> four wheels has to be better still.

Power to all 4 wheels means you get double the traction when you try and
acellerate. You don't get double the normal amount of braking or cornering
grip. If you can't drive in a normal car on snow tyres, I wouldn't bother
trying to drive a "soft roader" with snow tyres. When you lose it, it'll be
a lot harder to catch the slide because the centre of gravity is higher.
I've driven a front wheel drive quite happily on ice, without a fancy LSD or
traction control just by being gentle with the control and driving in a high
gear to limit the torque I'm putting down. If you must have 4 wheel drive,
I'd be tempted to go for an Audi Quattro or Subaru rather than a tonka toy.

On 21-Apr-2004, "Roger Hainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Can't help about snow but my RAV diesel goes great on the road giving 46+
> mpg and I can even squeeze over 50 mpg on long runs on economy mode.
> Roger

Thanks for the feedaback Roger. I've got a test drive in the Rav booked for
this morning. Still think it's the best looking of the soft roader options
although the X-trail seems to be the more sensible option. More space,
(allegedly) better in slippery conditions etc. But that economy is very
impressive. If I remember correctly the Rav actually shows you your fuel
economy so I'll check to see what the diesel demo gives today. By the way,
what do you mean by economy mode. I assume that's just you driving to
maximise economy. Does that mean sticking to 60 mph on the motorway? t's a
long way from Aberdeen to visit the releatives down south and I usually
cruise at 75-80mph. For comparison, on a recent trip down south in our small
family hatchback (Mazda 323) we only averaged 32mpg.

Cheers,

Andy

On 25-Apr-2004, "Roger Hainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tried the X-Trail and handling not as good as RAV.

Was that the old Di or the new Dci model? I've now driven both and the extra
power of the Dci engine is very noticeable. But you are right (even with the
new engine) the Rav is more fun to drive. It just feels more "chuckable" on
the bends. The X-trail feels much bigger to drive. Much more like you expect
a 4x4 to be. But then it is a much bigger (and therefore more practical) car
and the 4WD system is supposedly better. Though choice.

> RAV rear seating system is very versatile. Boot also has more height (due
> to
> external spare wheel) which is important for me for (2 folding bikes
> carried, wouldn't fit in upright in the X-Trail with parcel shelf in
> place).

Yes the removable rear seats are neat. But not much use if you are going on
a family holiday and need the back seats. But you are right the boot is a
lot taller than the X-trail. I'm also interested in throwing my bike in the
back (although it doesn't fold) and the extra height may well be quite
useful there.

Basically we want a car that is as fun and easy to drive as our little Mazda
323 but is more sure footed in the snow and has a bit more space. For all
its SUV pretentions the Rav probably fits the bill as well as anything and
(unlike the Suburu or Honda offerings) comes with a diesel option (promising
better fuel economy, longer life and better retained value at high mileage).
So it's ahead on points right now.

Cheers,

Andy

On 21-Apr-2004, "Doki" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Power to all 4 wheels means you get double the traction when you try and
> acellerate. You don't get double the normal amount of braking or cornering
> grip. If you can't drive in a normal car on snow tyres, I wouldn't bother
> trying to drive a "soft roader" with snow tyres. When you lose it, it'll
> be
> a lot harder to catch the slide because the centre of gravity is higher.

Fair point, but our problem is primarily traction. I don't have a problem
driving in the snow once I've got going (had lots of practice). We have to
go up a hill to get to our village. This winter I managed to get our Mazda
with it's crappy low profile tyres into the village through pretty deep
drifting snow on a number of occasions. Mainly just by getting some speed up
before hitting the hill then driving smoothly up it and round the bend at
the top. But if I'd met anybody comming the other way I'd have to stop (they
only plough the middle bit) and I very much doubt that I'd be able to get
started.

Cheers,

Andy

On 21-Apr-2004, "Doki" <[email protected]> wrote:

> If you must have 4 wheel drive,
> I'd be tempted to go for an Audi Quattro or Subaru rather than a tonka
> toy.

Well obviously it's more want than need, but I guess you could say that
about lots of things. Couldn't really claim that I must have a car at all if
it really came down to it. But the Subaru is certainly an option. Only
problem is that it only comes in petrol form with worse fuel economy than
either the Rav or Xtrail (in diesel form). According to new-car-net the cost
per mile for a Legacy 2.0i s is 29.6 compared with 24.6 for the diesel Rav.
So that's a grand a year more expensive (based on 20,000 miles per year).
Plus the ground clerance is worse (an issue in the snow). But it is over a
grand cheaper and they are offering free servicing for the first 36,000
miles at the moment so it's still on the list of possibles.

Cheers,

Andy

Andy,

> > Can't help about snow but my RAV diesel goes great on the road giving
46+
> > mpg and I can even squeeze over 50 mpg on long runs on economy mode.
> > Roger

> the X-trail seems to be the more sensible option.

Tried the X-Trail and handling not as good as RAV.

> More space,

RAV rear seating system is very versatile. Boot also has more height (due to
external spare wheel) which is important for me for (2 folding bikes
carried, wouldn't fit in upright in the X-Trail with parcel shelf in place).

> what do you mean by economy mode. I assume that's just you driving to
> maximise economy. Does that mean sticking to 60 mph on the motorway?

Yes, a light right foot but even clogging it will still better 40 mpg. When
towing a 1250 kg caravan was 32 mpg.
Roger

On 25-Apr-2004, "Roger Hainsworth" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Tried the X-Trail and handling not as good as RAV.

Was that the old Di or the new Dci model? I've now driven both and the extra
power of the Dci engine is very noticeable. But you are right (even with the
new engine) the Rav is more fun to drive. It just feels more "chuckable" on
the bends. The X-trail feels much bigger to drive. Much more like you expect
a 4x4 to be. But then it is a much bigger (and therefore more practical) car
and the 4WD system is supposedly better. Though choice.

> RAV rear seating system is very versatile. Boot also has more height (due
> to
> external spare wheel) which is important for me for (2 folding bikes
> carried, wouldn't fit in upright in the X-Trail with parcel shelf in
> place).

Yes the removable rear seats are neat. But not much use if you are going on
a family holiday and need the back seats. But you are right the boot is a
lot taller than the X-trail. I'm also interested in throwing my bike in the
back (although it doesn't fold) and the extra height may well be quite
useful there.

Basically we want a car that is as fun and easy to drive as our little Mazda
323 but is more sure footed in the snow and has a bit more space. For all
its SUV pretentions the Rav probably fits the bill as well as anything and
(unlike the Suburu or Honda offerings) comes with a diesel option (promising
better fuel economy, longer life and better retained value at high mileage).
So it's ahead on points right now.

Cheers,

Andy

Just to hijack the discussion with an observation. over the past 20 years I
have owned 7 4wd's and in my experience no matter how good your tyres and
how capable the car there is always some dipstick in a Nissan Micrap (insert
car of choice if you dont agree) who will make a royal horlicks and block
the road in front of you. A decent set of compromise tyres will make a huge
difference on soft snow or muddy tracks I changed the Pirellis on my Range
Rover for Wild Conquerers and they improved the offroad ability no end
without losing the quietness and road manners of the Pirellis. A few years
back we were setting up a shoot on the moors my pals road shod Disco would
not climb on the peat covered tracks where my Toyota Tercel 4wd a basic
small estate could but on "Town and Country" type rubber , just a little
more caretaken going round rather than over boulders, so yes If you like
the Rav make sure it is well tyred
Derek


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Just to hijack the discussion with an observation. over the past 20 years I
have owned 7 4wd's and in my experience no matter how good your tyres and
how capable the car there is always some dipstick in a Nissan Micrap (insert
car of choice if you dont agree) who will make a royal horlicks and block
the road in front of you. A decent set of compromise tyres will make a huge
difference on soft snow or muddy tracks I changed the Pirellis on my Range
Rover for Wild Conquerers and they improved the offroad ability no end
without losing the quietness and road manners of the Pirellis. A few years
back we were setting up a shoot on the moors my pals road shod Disco would
not climb on the peat covered tracks where my Toyota Tercel 4wd a basic
small estate could but on "Town and Country" type rubber , just a little
more caretaken going round rather than over boulders, so yes If you like
the Rav make sure it is well tyred
Derek


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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